Group Dynamics Issue

[Jokei]

Well, if he goes out screaming (perversely?) that would probably make me feel like I have done the right thing.
Anyway, off I go - once more unto the breach and all that.

 

[micguy]

Drive to Nashville. Have lunch. Ask your waiter to join your band. He's a better guitarist than the one you have, and if he can hold down his waiter gig, he has better social skills.

Seriously, there are too many guitarists around to waste time on one that isn't working out. The planet is crawling with good ones.

 

[Wesley R]

Preserve your BL power.
If you think the guitarist is going to argue about it, call and fire him over the phone when he has no gear to carry or pick up. He will resent practicing and then being fired just after. Tell the band about your decision at the next practice he isn't invited to. Have a guitarist wanted advert already published and show the band members that you are a strong, decisive leader, worth following.

Yep

 

[electracoyote]

As a BL myself, my gut reactions:

First, if I know one of my musicians has a "quirk" that will likely become evident and possibly make a bad impression or cause friction, I will pull a new member aside and mention it, encouraging them at the same time to try to roll with it. I don't like talking about my musicians behind their backs, and this is a rare occurrence, but a couple of my guys can come on a little strong once in awhile. I think for a new member to know I am aware of it and encouraging them not to take it too hard can help. I also try to point out the "offending" member's strengths and contributions at the same time, to try and balance things a bit.

Second, when a member quits, rather than just say adios and let them walk, I always want a thorough exit interview to find out what caused them to walk. At least that way I can maybe try to understand and finesse the situation. Maybe that involves a group chat where I lay it out there that "our singer walked because she feels tension and is uncomfortable." Then I try to get the others to understand, adjust, and maybe we can keep her in the band. It beats auditioning and letting history repeat; that sure involves a lot of time and effort.

Third, and I hate to say it, but sometimes it's a lost cause, and you are going to face a constant trend of animosity building up because one person has no diplomatic or people skills. If that person has been asked to soften their approach, and it's just not working, you gotta cut them loose. Keeping a member who makes waves and causes friction is the worse of the two hard choices, by far.

 

[40Hz]

he usually heads off immediately (no small talk)

Flouncing off immediately after a rehearsal or a show is among the trademark moves of a true prima donna. Important guy, y’know? Places to go. People to see. No time for idle chit-chat with the losers.

Guy sounds like a real winner who’s almost asking outright to be canned. (That’s another prima donna move btw. Odds are good he’s already got his exit speech rehearsed.)

 

[smogg]

Hey man, thanks for the reply. My gut feeling is that I believe the ex-singer, he's an "odd cookie" - my words there.
In your shoes, I'd have a word and say shape up or ship out. My problem is kinda non-specific in the sense that (having given more thought and gone for a walk) I just don't like him.

What the ex-singer said, does really concern me and a) I don't want anyone ever to be in an uncomfortable situation, but that's just not how the world works b) I don't want to work with someone who does things like that in an environment I'm in. I'm going to try and meet up with the drummer tomorrow and talk it through, I think I've made my decision.

The singer has not given you legitimate specifics. How can you side with the singer when you have no facts. Did he (guitarist) hit on her? Does he expect more than she's willing to give the project? Did she prove herself to musically incompetent in the guitarist eyes? Is it a spousal objection?

Is the band as a whole unwilling or unable to "keep up" with him musically. So what if he dosen't want to hang with you socially. He's there to do a job not be bestest buddy for everyone. Some people prefer to keep band mates as working associates and keep the social life separate. Too many possibilities and too many unanswered questions.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Ok, so this is my first thread: I guess I'm defacto band leader as I put it all together...
We're an originals band, looking to gig, record and see how far we can push it.
Its relatively early days, we've been together almost a year. Our first singer quit at the start of January, I've since found out she had problems with the guitarist.

Our guitarist, on a personal level is quite a difficult person. Personally, I think we all need to get along and be able to spend time together if this is going to work out, every couple of months we'd try and do something together, pub, dinner, something relaxed and comfortable. The guitarist generally says "yes" and then makes what seem like crappy excuses to bail... It's not that big a deal, but the lying gets to me a bit and I feel that if things go well with the band, this is going to be more of an issue. There's other things, he's excellent at his instrument, knows a lot of theory, but he can be quite damning if someone else doesn't, sometimes he can just be in a bad mood at practice and it brings it down for everyone else.
Back to the singer thing, we're on speaking terms - she's a decent person and it's only a band, the split wasn't acrimonious (I thought). We've met for social drinks (with her husband) and she said the guitarist made her feel quite uncomfortable there was no elaboration there and I won't see her for a few weeks.

We've been doing auditions and the new singer looks to be a lady - she's excellent, but now I'm worried that things are going to be difficult for her.

So, I've spoken to the drummer and he saids he's uneasy about the guitarist, but maybe he's just terrible in social situations (I agree). I spoke to the guitarist last night and he was very unhappy with me. I'm pretty cool about it (I think) and I don't want to knee-jerk boot him for that, but the singer stuff really bothers me, as does the question of what's this going to be like in a year or so?

I think I know what I have to do though, the only thing I honestly think holding me back is that it's gonna scrap half our set/material and we'll need to find a guitarist that'll fit musically.

I think laying it all down here's helped, but feedback would be appreciated - has anyone dealt with something like this?

Well, when 3 of you can’t get along with the guy says a lot, and one of those quit to avoid him, Should tell you he’s got to go. Before he does, record the band if you haven’t already for the next guitarist.

 

[somebrains]

I had a drummer and guitar player rack up DUI's.
Diff drummer and singer/guitar player were hard core speed freaks.

How much drama do you want to deal with, bc this isn't registering as even 3/4 empty on my gauge.
Any band member has the right to say "fix your XXXXXX, I don't like it".

 

[Jimmy4string]

 

[Oddly]

Your guitarist sounds like a guy who just wants to play guitar, and hasn't learnt the life-lesson that there's more to being in a band than music chops...you have to make at least some effort to gel with your band-mates.

There are situations where's that's fine, if he's just a hired gun, but not here.

Drop him, and find a better fit.

 

[rtslinger]

Not sure how much you are in need of that guitarist, but if you are to get anywhere with a band, everyone has to be dedicated and on the same page goal wise. It is tough enough staying motivated when it comes to working with strong personalities, which you will find musicians fall in to that mold. But you have to try real hard as the person who is putting this together, not to let things that are not working for you or the band, get brought up. Two things will happen, you will give it a shove back on track or it will come off the rails and you may have to kick someone to the curb to get it back to your liking. As a BL that is the hardest thing to do if you want to seriously give it a shot. I would meet with everyone either before practice or after whichever works for you and go over the same things you posted about gigs and recording and giving it a serious try to make this happen, and listen to the responses. You can't assume because someone joined your band that they have the same dreams in mind as you do. This way, you will know where everyone's heads are at, or whether you are wasting your time with certain individuals. Good Luck

 

[BooDoggie]

The world is full of crappy guitarists... find yourself one with much less attitude and a bit more professionalism...

I just feel crappy about giving people bad news, it needs to be done though, so I'll do it... I guess I'm bandleader because I put it together and have fairly good organisational skills

I once had to fire a guy that got me the job as his boss. Don't let it get to you... Real life sucks and sometimes you're a part of it...

 

[Billoney]

Hey man, thanks for the reply. My gut feeling is that I believe the ex-singer, he's an "odd cookie" - my words there.
In your shoes, I'd have a word and say shape up or ship out. My problem is kinda non-specific in the sense that (having given more thought and gone for a walk) I just don't like him.

What the ex-singer said, does really concern me and a) I don't want anyone ever to be in an uncomfortable situation, but that's just not how the world works b) I don't want to work with someone who does things like that in an environment I'm in. I'm going to try and meet up with the drummer tomorrow and talk it through, I think I've made my decision.

Who wouldn't be uncomfortable around someone who hates the world (rhetorical question)?

 

[Jokei]

The singer has not given you legitimate specifics. How can you side with the singer when you have no facts. Did he (guitarist) hit on her? Does he expect more than she's willing to give the project? Did she prove herself to musically incompetent in the guitarist eyes? Is it a spousal objection?

Is the band as a whole unwilling or unable to "keep up" with him musically. So what if he dosen't want to hang with you socially. He's there to do a job not be bestest buddy for everyone. Some people prefer to keep band mates as working associates and keep the social life separate. Too many possibilities and too many unanswered questions.

Honestly, gut feeling from how he's interacted with me and how I've seen him interact with everyone else.
I said I won't see her for a few weeks. So, if he doesn't want to hang out, that's not really a big deal, but the bailing out at the last minute is just a bit tiring, the rest of us get on... we're going to see how far this goes (I understand the likelihood is slim), if in 5 years time I've got to share a tour bus with this guy, it'd be awful. As mentioned, he's generally difficult. We're keeping up with him musically, the best thing about him is I've been forced to practice lots to keep up, but I'm confident we're all at a comfortable stage, the drummer's always been good - if anything, it's been me that's coerced him into non-standard time sigs though The ex singer was fantastic, competent, very strong voice, two of us are still on good terms with her. Let me be clear though "doing his job" also involves writing original material which is nowhere near a relaxed process when he brings things in, there's just no camaraderie there.

I'm not bitching about your post, I just want to clarify he's not in on the band dynamic as is... I think I'd made my mind up about 10 seconds after hitting post to start the thread, getting my thoughts down in writing has really help and some of the questions posted have made me think definite yes/no answers and it's lead to me making the decision that needs to be made.

My day job is in a small team and people mostly get on, it's a pleasure to go into work (most days). It's not always a pleasure to turn up to practice.

Thanks for posting this, it's given me a bit further clarity.

 

[smogg]

Honestly, gut feeling from how he's interacted with me and how I've seen him interact with everyone else.
I said I won't see her for a few weeks. So, if he doesn't want to hang out, that's not really a big deal, but the bailing out at the last minute is just a bit tiring, the rest of us get on... we're going to see how far this goes (I understand the likelihood is slim), if in 5 years time I've got to share a tour bus with this guy, it'd be awful. As mentioned, he's generally difficult. We're keeping up with him musically, the best thing about him is I've been forced to practice lots to keep up, but I'm confident we're all at a comfortable stage, the drummer's always been good - if anything, it's been me that's coerced him into non-standard time sigs though The ex singer was fantastic, competent, very strong voice, two of us are still on good terms with her. Let me be clear though "doing his job" also involves writing original material which is nowhere near a relaxed process when he brings things in, there's just no camaraderie there.

I'm not bitching about your post, I just want to clarify he's not in on the band dynamic as is... I think I'd made my mind up about 10 seconds after hitting post to start the thread, getting my thoughts down in writing has really help and some of the questions posted have made me think definite yes/no answers and it's lead to me making the decision that needs to be made.

My day job is in a small team and people mostly get on, it's a pleasure to go into work (most days). It's not always a pleasure to turn up to practice.

Thanks for posting this, it's given me a bit further clarity.

I'm glad you took my post as intended. If you've looked at both sides of the coin honestly (and it sounds like you have) then you should be able to move forward in a decisive manner with a clear conscience. Stay honest and keep in real. Don't record his parts without his knowledge or consent. Maybe work out a deal to keep rights to any music or lyrics he wrote. (If they are worth keeping) Best of luck to you and your band.

 

[Jokei]

I'm glad you took my post as intended. If you've looked at both sides of the coin honestly (and it sounds like you have) then you should be able to move forward in a decisive manner with a clear conscience. Stay honest and keep in real. Don't record his parts without his knowledge or consent. Maybe work out a deal to keep rights to any music or lyrics he wrote. (If they are worth keeping) Best of luck to you and your band.

Well, we're going to lose about half our "set list". Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable using his material (it is good though), it just wouldn't feel right and drummer agrees, plus I think that would be salt in the wound territory an could lead to confrontation (which I readily admit I'm not a fan of). If nothing else it's a learning curve and we've all gained from playing more.

 

[smogg]

Well, we're going to lose about half our "set list". Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable using his material (it is good though), it just wouldn't feel right and drummer agrees, plus I think that would be salt in the wound territory an could lead to confrontation (which I readily admit I'm not a fan of). If nothing else it's a learning curve and we've all gained from playing more.

Just some food for thought from an old rocker. The writing process does not need to always be relaxed. The best originals band I was ever in (and I mean literally), the band dynamics during the strongest writing sessions were combative to say the least. Out of those sessions came our best material. When we preformed them live the audience was overwhelmed by the energy. Why? Because it was real. Emotional bumps and bruises can be a powerful tool. Enjoy the ride as they say.

 

[Jokei]

Just some food for thought from an old rocker. The writing process does not need to always be relaxed. The best originals band I was ever in (and I mean literally), the band dynamics during the strongest writing sessions were combative to say the least. Out of those sessions came our best material. When we preformed them live the audience was overwhelmed by the energy. Why? Because it was real. Emotional bumps and bruises can be a powerful tool. Enjoy the ride as they say.

I get that and historically that has been the case, there's just a greater unease.
On the plus side my Markbass combo turns up tomorrow

 

[smogg]

I get that and historically that has been the case, there's just a greater unease.
On the plus side my Markbass combo turns up tomorrow

Looking forward to your review on the combo.

 

[Jokei]

Looking forward to your review on the combo.

Thomann gave me a voucher for reviewing my last pedal - unfortunately I didn't review it until after purchasing the combo :/

On a tangent, should I wait until a month or so of using it? (the combo).