Group Improvisation Excersises

[Deadsound]

Hi all - not sure of best place for this. I'm looking for suggestions for group improvisation exercises that help improve collective listening and group dynamics - Phish's "including your own hey" exercise is one I was just reading up on. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

 

[mambo4]

I start a pattern and then Page harmonizes with it. We make a jigsaw-puzzle pattern. Then Mike finds his place in the pattern, and Fish finds his place in it. And we’re all listening to each other. Now, only when you hear that all the other musicians have stopped searching, once you hear they’ve locked in with what you’re playing, you say, “Hey!” So, since we’re still listening so intently to each other, we should all say “Hey” at the same time, but if we don’t—if someone says “Hey” when you’re still searching, they’ve basically just told you, “I’m not listening to you.” So we found, very quickly, that it meant you had to always be listening to three people other than yourself. And the music, we found, improved immensely by not navel-gazing. So now the idea is, I’m not paying any attention to myself at all. I’m just responding to what they’re playing.

I never heard of that , sounds like solid advice for practicing group improv.
Most of my past experiences jamming , nobody ever stopped searching.

 

[Bob_Ross]

That "including your own hey" description sounds like a wonderful exercise, and an excellent discipline

...as well as a sure-fire recipe for creating music that by definition will always regularly plateau...and possibly stagnate.

Which is fine if it's just being used as an exercise. But if one is hoping to use it as a form for a musically engaging group improvisation, one needs to be aware of that implicit limitation, and decide whether that will be a catalyst, or an obstacle, to inspired spontaneity.

 

[mambo4]

the blurb I quoted was just part the of the exercise
here's aInvalid Link Removed

the thing that stuck me was that it was a great way to hone in and practice mutual listening
and practice recognizing when the music has cohered from exploration into a definite something
because before you can go somewhere together you must be able able to get somewhere together

 

[Deadsound]

That "including your own hey" description sounds like a wonderful exercise, and an excellent discipline

...as well as a sure-fire recipe for creating music that by definition will always regularly plateau...and possibly stagnate.

Which is fine if it's just being used as an exercise. But if one is hoping to use it as a form for a musically engaging group improvisation, one needs to be aware of that implicit limitation, and decide whether that will be a catalyst, or an obstacle, to inspired spontaneity.

I am just looking for exercises, yes. The goal is to become better listeners and more effective at responding musically and 'locking up' when playing. It's about becoming tight and cohesive as a unit more than long-form jamming. But on the plateau/stagnate part, from my understanding Phish did a lot of variations on the exercise. Once a "hey" was reached someone would introduce a change and the others would have to lock in again, so there was constant mutation; or they did one centered on leaving space for the other 3, so the notes you played couldn't overlap in time with any of the others.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Lennie Tristano, who recorded the first free jazz improvisations with his quintet, used to have the saxophonists (Lee Konitz and Warne Marsh) play Bach two part inventions together.

 

[Bob_Ross]

they did one centered on leaving space for the other 3, so the notes you played couldn't overlap in time with any of the others.

Enforcing "space for others" by virtue of dictating who plays when -- rather than who plays what -- is a very useful tool in structuring improvisation. A lot of the Comprovisation guys I've worked with over the years (e.g., Ken Vandermark, Chris Jonas, Randy McKean, etc.) will often dictate only who plays at a particular point. It gives the improvisation the ability to go almost anywhere in the moment, and yet simultaneously imparts a structure by virtue of this segmented orchestration. It also prevents the Everyone Wanking Together All The Time syndrome.

Jonas took this concept even further in his composition "Snake Tectonics" which not only dictates who plays when, but also whether when you play you're in the foreground or the background. That's all the information [sic] the composition contains, and yet it winds up being a wonderful recipe for engaging music every time I've played it or heard it performed, because of how it controls the density in a way that is disciplined without being dogmatic.