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Grumpy FOH guys!

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poolerboy

Oct 11, 2009
8
0
#1
Hi all,

This question has probably been asked many times before but it's a constant problem that never goes away...The age old problem of FOH guys telling me to "TURN DOWN".

I have an Ampeg III pro (yes, I know) and ampeg classic SVT 4x10 and 1x15 to go with it. I do actually like the sound but for festival gigs there is whisper on stage and venues I'm fighting with the sound engineer telling me to turn down when I'm barely on. I know ampegs are boomy...but this is voodoo.

Anyway I've tried in-ears and I love them but I like air drilling my chest out. I've hired loads of amps and nothing cuts it. (EBS (nice but still asked to turn down), GK, Ashdown (yuk), Eden (weird sounding), Aguilar was great but wrong for the gig and other Ampegs).

The Butt-kicker platform was suggested - but I don't want to be planted.

Is there anything that I can do before I put my foot through the guitarist cab, leave a poo in the drummers snare drum or seriously mame the FOH guy?

I want to be in the PA but I want to enjoy the gig too!

Hope someone has found a solution from the attrition from everyone on the stage and FOH!
 
#3
DI to board, and then stand above/near/ in front of sub . . .
.
Are ya' feelin' it now?
.
I regularly play on a stage with subs built in. . . monitoring is in ear. You can feel the subs resonating from the stage through your feet, up your legs, to your whole body. It is wondrous. The only stage sound is the drummer.
.
Works for me!
 
#4
Get yourself one of the plexiglass shields often used by drums.
You can isolate yourself and your amp behind it, and the FOH guy can control the sound out front.

Listen to the FOH engineer. Unless you're the leader of the band and paying the salaries. In that case good luck finding a quality FOH guy that wants to mix to garbage sound.
 
#5
I feel your pain.

I used to run a Mesa Bass 400 into two of the Mesa Thiele 1x15 Road Ready cabs and would have this problem. Up close on stage I could not hear myself but 30 feet out front or so I would be thumpin.

15's seem to be a bit on the boomy side. You might try a 2x10 with the 4x10, in place of the 15.
 
#7
The sound engineer as concurred that on stage there is not much on stage for me (at most venues). Some venues are just nasty sounding, of course.

I've done the DI to board and use in-ears. Obviously positions of subs vary from venue to venue for in-house or where-ever the Techs can get them. The subs from the FOH PA is such a delayed kick that its generally off-putting unless the venue is nice and tight.

But that's the problem. I want a set-up where my sound isn't going to be at the mercy of the venue.
 
#8
poolerboy said:
The sound engineer as concurred that on stage there is not much on stage for me (at most venues). Some venues are just nasty sounding, of course.

I've done the DI to board and use in-ears. Obviously positions of subs vary from venue to venue for in-house or where-ever the Techs can get them. The subs from the FOH PA is such a delayed kick that its generally off-putting unless the venue is nice and tight.

But that's the problem. I want a set-up where my sound isn't going to be at the mercy of the venue.
Click to expand...
Oh, so you want to move to Never Never Land? Because that's the only place where your sound won't be at the mercy of the venue.

If you have a wireless or a long cable, next gig you do, go offstage and listen for yourself. You will either hear that the FOH guy is FOS, or you will hear that you're blaring well over everyone else. My money's on the second option.
 
#9
Red Planet said:
...15's seem to be a bit on the boomy side. You might try a 2x10 with the 4x10, in place of the 15.
Click to expand...

You're right. 1x15 is nice. But I made a mistake getting that!

The only thing I've tried that I've got close to a compromise is SWR henry 8x8 as a hire. Though it wasn't very pretty sounding. I loved it for that though. MD didn't! Anything similar out there that has similar punch but more versatile?
 
#10
poolerboy said:
The sound engineer as concurred that on stage there is not much on stage for me (at most venues). Some venues are just nasty sounding, of course.

I've done the DI to board and use in-ears. Obviously positions of subs vary from venue to venue for in-house or where-ever the Techs can get them. The subs from the FOH PA is such a delayed kick that its generally off-putting unless the venue is nice and tight.

But that's the problem. I want a set-up where my sound isn't going to be at the mercy of the venue.
Click to expand...

looks like your best bet is to bring extra poo then. :hmm:
 
#11
Well, if you aren't a knob tweeker (constantly having to fine tune "your" sound on your rig), then it sounds like you need to set up your rig across the stage and go wireless. Getting about 20-30 feet away from your rig is the ONLY way to hear it like everyone else hears it. A plexi wall for the drums and a guitarist who knows how to turn knobs to the left are a far off 2nd.

P.S. Not only am I a bassist, but I AM one of those grumpy guys. If you had to deal with a different set of a$$#@les with 6 foot tall rigs every weekend, you would be grumpy too. We have NO CONTROL over volume or tone if everyone's STAGE VOLUME IS TOO LOUD! Either quit crying and deal with it, or run sound from the stage and don't get a sound guy (which will sound horrible BTW). Sorry. Such is life.
 
#12
JimmyM said:
If you have a wireless or a long cable, next gig you do, go offstage and listen for yourself. You will either hear that the FOH guy is FOS, or you will hear that you're blaring well over everyone else. My money's on the second option.
Click to expand...

Done that and absolutely the latter was correct. So I would turn down (a lot) and play the gig struggling to get "into" it.
 
#13
Get it high, get it far enough behind you.

Do you usually get your own monitor mix? If so, get it cranked in there but it still won't thump like you want. Side-fills usually reproduce the bass better, but, unless the other guys in the band want bass in the side-fills, you're SOL.

I don't care for them, but have you tried one of the "kick-back" style cabs in front of you? A 2x10 might also have a low enough profile that it could go in front of you.

The next time you have an FOH guy you can get along with, ask for their opinion on how to get what you want.

saying: "Do you have any ideas how I can get enough bass that I can feel it" usuallly gets a better response than "I've GOT to have more bass"

Not saying you do would do that, just IMO
 
#15
If you're main goal is to "get enough bass that I can feel it" then your best option is to stay close to your amp. Beyond that you're going to start effecting others on stage, and off the stage.

Just depends if your goal is satisfying yourself, satisfying the crowd, or somewhere in between.
 
#16
unbridled said:
I don't care for them, but have you tried one of the "kick-back" style cabs in front of you? A 2x10 might also have a low enough profile that it could go in front of you.


saying: "Do you have any ideas how I can get enough bass that I can feel it" usuallly gets a better response than "I've GOT to have more bass"...
Click to expand...

Might try the kick-back idea! Thanks for that!

and...
that is exactly the language and tone that I always have to take with FOH guys when sound checking. A lot are bigger divas than the turn!!! ;)
 
#17
a 4x10 or even 2x12 really is enough speaker on a typical stage. If you are playing stadiums or 1000+ venues, than a full stack is nice.

Really, you have to relax a little bit. I won't say "grow up", but it crossed my mind. Plug just your 4x10 in and leave your 1x15 under it for looks only...and you will have fewer complaints from sound guys.

I know bass guys, and even guitar guys, who don't WANT to play with one smaller cabinet. They want to play rock star and have giant amps on stage. All their hero's do, so why not them? But when you are in a club, on a smallish stage, there is no room sonically for full stacks with mega watts...there just isn't.

Use your 4x10, come to grips that you can't play with so much air blowin' that you can feel it. You'll be happier.
 
#18
You are somewhat at the mercy of the venue even if there isn't any PA support. Bass players often are myopic about reality. Like somehow the place where they stand is the center of the universe and acoustically every other part of the room will conform to it. But the rooms just don't care.
 
#19
poolerboy said:
Done that and absolutely the latter was correct. So I would turn down (a lot) and play the gig struggling to get "into" it.
Click to expand...
Well, hate to say it but that's your problem. What you need to do is get yourself into the mindset that a good onstage sound where you get a balance with everyone else without blasting over them is the ticket. It's all psychology. You have to talk yourself into getting into it. The best way to do that is to picture the owner of the venue running up to you and firing your band 2 songs into the first set, then picture the rest of the guys in the band getting pissed at you because you had to have it your way. Then picture yourself at the gig, and the owner says, "A lot of bass players come in here and turn up way too loud and blow the place out, but you didn't, so I want you to come back often. And next time, you're headlining."

A good onstage mix almost always results in a good FOH mix. A poor onstage mix where one guy lets his ego get the best of him and blows the crowd out always results in epic fail.
 

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