Grumpy FOH guys!

[JimmyM]

Might try the kick-back idea! Thanks for that!

and...
that is exactly the language and tone that I always have to take with FOH guys when sound checking. A lot are bigger divas than the turn!!!

That is true. But in this case, I think you're being the diva.

 

[dingbass]

Unfortunately, 15's aren't great for smaller venues (i.e. almost anything indoors) unless it is a huge club or arena. they just through to far. I believe (i am sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) that is takes about 20-30 feet for a bass wave to develop from a 15" speaker. By the time the sound is full it is 10 feet past you. What I've found works for me is either using a 12" speaker (which requires a shorter through) or a 2x10 tilted back in front of me. that usually sothes the savage FOH guy. One of the nice thing i have found about Eden cabs is that they don't through a huge distance which when you are running through a large P.A. is key. Overall on 99% of the gigs i do my amp on stage is just a monitor, I let the sound guy worry about what is happening out front.

 

[David Jayne]

I believe (i am sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) that is takes about 20-30 feet for a bass wave to develop from a 15" speaker. By the time the sound is full it is 10 feet past you.

Consider yourself corrected- that idea is complete nonsense.

 

[greenboy]

Yep. Crap.

 

[Jack]

Next gig, take your 1x15" and dont plug it in. Just the 410 lifted of the stage and pointing at your head might help a lot.

Oh, and turn down some more.

 

[JimmyM]

Unfortunately, 15's aren't great for smaller venues (i.e. almost anything indoors) unless it is a huge club or arena. they just through to far. I believe (i am sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong) that is takes about 20-30 feet for a bass wave to develop from a 15" speaker. By the time the sound is full it is 10 feet past you.

Yep, you're right...you will be corrected. This is bunk. If it were true, headphones wouldn't work. If the sound is stronger 15 feet away, it's because of boundary reflections in the room. Unfortunately, a lot of pro audio people still believe this nonsense and keep saying it as gospel. So it's not your fault.

You are also wrong that 115 cabs aren't great for smaller venues. It's a matter of taste. I often use 115 cabs on gigs big and small, and they are always great (at least mine are). What's not so great, at least to me, is combining them with a 410. The 410 drowns out the 115, plus it can cause phasing issues. A lot of people do it and like it, but I have always hated combining speakers like that. Either 10"s or 15"s for me, never both.

 

[Eric Moesle]

a 4x10 or even 2x12 really is enough speaker on a typical stage. If you are playing stadiums or 1000+ venues, than a full stack is nice.

Really, you have to relax a little bit. I won't say "grow up", but it crossed my mind. Plug just your 4x10 in and leave your 1x15 under it for looks only...and you will have fewer complaints from sound guys.
****
Use your 4x10, come to grips that you can't play with so much air blowin' that you can feel it. You'll be happier.

This is the best advice, and its why the Ampeg 8x10 has separate inputs for the top 4x10's and the bottom 4x10's. For local venues, just use the top speakers.

Always keep in mind that you are playing for your AUDIENCE to hear. Don't sacrifice your sound out front to have a little better sound for yourself onstage.

Hire a good soundman, work with him, and TRUST him. You don't use any old drummer you find at a venue, so why use the venue's house soundman when he has absolute control over what your audience hears???

 

[PBass101]

Wouldn't a fair middle ground be to have a small amp on stage to give you the necessary "feel" and combine that with ear-ins so as to blast your eardrums as hard as you want without screwing with everything else?

I like that idea.

 

[standupright]

Yep, you're right...you will be corrected. This is bunk. If it were true, headphones wouldn't work. If the sound is stronger 15 feet away, it's because of boundary reflections in the room. Unfortunately, a lot of pro audio people still believe this nonsense and keep saying it as gospel. So it's not your fault.

You are also wrong that 115 cabs aren't great for smaller venues. It's a matter of taste. I often use 115 cabs on gigs big and small, and they are always great (at least mine are). What's not so great, at least to me, is combining them with a 410. The 410 drowns out the 115, plus it can cause phasing issues. A lot of people do it and like it, but I have always hated combining speakers like that. Either 10"s or 15"s for me, never both.

+1

 

[JimmyM]

Hire a good soundman, work with him, and TRUST him. You don't use any old drummer you find at a venue, so why use the venue's house soundman when he has absolute control over what your audience hears???

Eric, while I agree with you, two things to consider...

1. Hiring a good soundman is not always easy when you're a band who's already got a pretty thin split with the money. Most good soundmen I know make way more than the band members they work for. Bowzer doesn't carry a soundman for this exact reason.

B. A lot of these venues won't let an outside soundman from a local rock band even point at their board.

 

[Demon_Hunter]

Be too much of a jerk about it and the FOH guy could just do what a lot do.....bury the bass in the mix so nobody hears it.

 

[David Jayne]

This is the best advice, and its why the Ampeg 8x10 has separate inputs for the top 4x10's and the bottom 4x10's. For local venues, just use the top speakers.

Huh, that's clever. Good idea.

 

[grifff]

Eric, while I agree with you, two things to consider...

1. Hiring a good soundman is not always easy when you're a band who's already got a pretty thin split with the money. Most good soundmen I know make way more than the band members they work for. Bowzer doesn't carry a soundman for this exact reason.

B. A lot of these venues won't let an outside soundman from a local rock band even point at their board.

I laughed a little. I also though the FOH guy being FOS was genius.

Back on topic, I'd say try pointing your rig more towards you instead of out into the crowd if you're also running a DI. You can use the rig for your stage volume and the DI signal for the FOH volume.

 

[la grange]

some facts and misconception.
Take it from a sound guy/bass player.
15' is not boomy as such especially ampeg gear. It can be if the rig isn't tuned properly.
Every venue has it's note, the shape of the stage, is it hollow or full, the shape of the pit, the material off the walls, all this taken into account gives you a note that will resonate more. And so will be the harminics, high and low. Your sound guy should know what freq to avoid boosting beside the usual suspect like 180 and 250.
To feel the low end and enjoy the show like you said, try to reverse your cabs, 10's down and 15 up. But only once your stage EQ is nice and sharp meaning no one is stepping on each others toes within the stage mix.
Then play with the amp angle panning it doing it so with the FOH guy advice.
But seriously, if you think he dude is just trying to piss you off, you're way off.

 

[vinxbass]

Your too loud, turn down and start thinking of your sound in the mix, not that you can feel it moving your shirt.

I've been told many times to turn down and it's because the bass is simply too loud. Bass carries, it's the first thing you hear when your outside of a venue, the closer you get to being inside the more you hear the other instruments and vocals.

Just turn down like they said.

 

[Steve]

Being the grumpy old SOB that I am, my stock respose to that sound guy is, more often than not:

"Provide me the monitor volume I need and I'll unplug the amp. If you can't do that, take me out of the mix and I'll cover the room from stage. Give me the thumb up / down on the level you want."

It's not my fault you bought 6 subs for the mains and your monitor set up consists of 3 cheap 12" wedges.

On the other hand, I don't feel the need to be the hammer of Thor. I just need to hear the note.

 

[GinBassPlayer]

it took me ten years to accept, but these guys are correct... the way to get your bass into the FOH mix is NOT to turn up on stage, it's to turn down .. or in my case (with our IEM set up and digital input), completely OFF... my bass has never sounded so good in the mix since the only bass volume is coming from the FOH.. I do sometimes use my 115 at low volume to vibrate the floor a little, but the bottom line is to keep your $2,000 bass rig quiet and let the guy with the $20,000 pa system do the work..

 

[mrpackerguy]

I've found the further back I can get my rig, the better I can hear it and am rarely asked to turn down.

 

[synterx]

I think there is absolutely no reason to trash the OP.

Huh? Who trashed the OP? I don't see it anywhere here.

 

[Red Planet]

Also.

There is nothing wrong with 15's at all. They can just be a little more boo-my depending on the cab.

Do not take everything you read on the Internet literally, take real life experiences over Internet.

Example - I regularly use a 2x10/1x15 setup with no such phasing issues whatsoever.

Some times I use just a 2x10, sometimes a single 1x15, sometimes a single 4x10, and sometimes the 2x10 + 1x15etc...... Sometimes I just hook it all up at once.

I have yet to have any real issues with any of it. Though there can be times when you are louder a good deal away from your rig than you are up close (perception).

I would try some of the suggestions here and see if any of them help you and just ignore the BS.