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Guild Darkstars back (2015)?

Doner Designs

Steve Doner
Jun 2, 2012
5,784
6,819
Metro Chicago Area
www.donerdesigns.org
Disclosures
Doner Designs is an alias for Steve Doner
Holy Darkstar - I just saw this at BBG...

Guild DS1 Bi-Sonic Pickup - Best Bass Gear

Anyone use them yet? Any thoughts on how it compares to the Novak?

These are $99 and the Curtis Novak is $275....a considerable difference especially if you want a pair. I'm sure the Novak is better made but this might be a good way to test the waters with a less expensive option IF they are similar in terms of winding, magnets and tone (not in that order).
 
Holy Darkstar - I just saw this at BBG...

Guild DS1 Bi-Sonic Pickup - Best Bass Gear

Anyone use them yet? Any thoughts on how it compares to the Novak?

These are $99 and the Curtis Novak is $275....a considerable difference especially if you want a pair. I'm sure the Novak is better made but this might be a good way to test the waters with a less expensive option IF they are similar in terms of winding, magnets and tone (not in that order).


Hey Doner

Nice catch. Thanks for this.

I for one, am keeping a close eye on this thread.

I am a little perplexed by what appears to be a sudden renaissance of the Darkstar pickups. It's interesting - do players really love Darkstars, I mean real Darkstars in the original Fred Hammon sense? I know some players do - they swear by them and praise them up and down here on TB. Or is it that they love the Darkstar "clones" made by Novak? The Novak's are nearly triple the price because (ahem) they don't REALLY sound like Darkstars, just in case no one has noticed. I, for one, really find this fascinating. It's like: "The original Darkstars are not really for me - but man - those Darkstars that don't sound quite like Darkstars are really barkin!"

Hey, to each their own - but what is the deal? I get the impression that numerous players are buying them because they like how they look. (!!!?????) If that is the case, I recommend you go with the originals at 99 bucks.

Just trying to understand the fascination. Enlighten me, please....
 
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Just trying to understand the fascination. Enlighten me, please....

I've never heard one "in the real" but only from YouTube and [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. I do really like the sound of this pup (sexy!), but to me the real cherry on the sundae is the looks. The only truly good looking bass pickups out there in my book. I mean, just look at this babe:

AtG78Es.jpg


Looks great, sounds great, what's not to like?
 
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The Novak's are triple the price because (ahem) they don't REALLY sound like Darkstars, just in case no one has noticed. I, for one, really find this fascinating.

Oh, and while Novak's pickup may be triple of the price of the $99 Guild offering, it's certainly not triple the price of what Hammon was selling AFAIK.

My guess is price isn't the only difference between the new Guild and what Curtis builds.
 
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I've never heard one "in the real" but only from YouTube and [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. I do really like the sound of this pup (sexy!), but to me the real cherry on the sundae is the looks. The only truly good looking bass pickups out there in my book. I mean, just look at this babe:

AtG78Es.jpg


Looks great, sounds great, what's not to like?

Hey Fuzz...

Full disclosure - I am thrilled that you are thrilled and I can't wait to see your new red beauty. I know you have been planning it for a long time and it must be driving you crazy that the neck and body have not arrived at your doorstep as of yet! Patience my friend, goes a long way and it should be more than worth it in the end! Good luck with it and I must say the cream or ivory on those pickups is very striking. I am not sure I have ever seen any quite like that. I am looking forward to seeing that puppy strung up and working. RedHotFuzz indeed!

However, as you may have guessed - I do have ulterior motives....

First of all, if you look at my builds and my basses, I have always believed and always will - that pickups should be heard but not necessarily seen. That is why a significant portion of my basses have piezos only. I like the clean look of no pickups when I can get away with it - and like some of the G&L and MusicMan pickups - the Darkstars are really way too big for me. What looks great to me is no pickups - not an oversize one. It's of course, totally subjective, not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here at all - but if you want me to speak my truth, and I am hoping that you do - well, there it is. They are beautiful to you and even amazing on some level - but just not for me.

Having said that, I am also a tradition guy. When I do my "copycat" builds in medium scale, I generally try and keep to the tradition of the original pickups, at least in the "looks" category. On some builds - it would be silly to go piezo only - but what I stuff under the pickup covers is my own business. :woot::woot::woot::woot::woot:

Unfortunately, on a couple of counts - I was never enamored by the sound of the original Darkstars. My guitar player had a Starfire, and I logged a good amount of time playing it at rehearsals. He also had a Hagstrom bass with a Darkstar that I banged around on a little. I liked a lot about the Guild, but I never cared for the sound of either of them amplified. When I moved to my EB-0, the only way I could deal with the mudbuckers, which to me at the time I felt were VERY similar to the Darkstars - was to replace the capacitor with one that was much brighter in the mids. I would also lock down a wah-wah pedal in the full buns treble position. Admittedly, it was a little noisy but suddenly barking with only a pinch of EQ - but really?

So fast forward - I have another vintage Gibson build in the early stages of planning that will have an EB-0 pickup cover. Just trying to decide what to put under it. I kind of hate the fact that the thing is huge - so I could put almost anything under there. So I have this moral dilemma. Do I want it so sound like a GIBSON with a full buns awful mudbucker, and go out and buy a wah-wah pedal and doctor up the capacitor? Do I want to get a Novak bisonic that he designed to sit under that EB-O cover and have a bass that sounds good, but in truth sounds nothing like an EB-O? It's a tough decision. TB wears me out when folks get their new Fender and the first thing they do is swap the pickups out so it no longer sounds like a Fender. "Wow, my Fender is really KILLER now that the Fender pickups are gone." Really? I don't know, it's just a little weird to me, but I suppose it is just as weird to put in the capacitor and pump in the wah-wah pedal. After all mods are mods and once you start does it really matter? The original instrument is suddenly no where to be found.

So, I am trying to learn and trying to get past my youthful prejudices with respect to the Darkstar and the Starfire - and trying to figure out what is right for me. What works for you Fuzz, is a P Bass with an ivory Darkstar, and I salute you and wish you nothing but the best with the build and the hope that it gives you many long hours of joy and satisfaction!

So, yes, I will be keeping my eye on this thread with fascination, and hopefully the Darkstar folks and the Novak folks will be able articulate the ins and outs and maybe some of the history of both - so I can learn more about the similarities and differences and how they have both gotten better and better in the modern versions. Hoping there might even be some new sound clips!

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
I've never heard one "in the real" but only from YouTube and [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. I do really like the sound of this pup (sexy!), but to me the real cherry on the sundae is the looks. The only truly good looking bass pickups out there in my book. I mean, just look at this babe:

AtG78Es.jpg


Looks great, sounds great, what's not to like?

Absolutely the sexiest LOOKING pickup ever in my opinion.

Never heard one in person but like what I hear about the character of the tone.

Interesting that they are very popular in hollow bodies.
 
I did a little follow up today. The Guild version is only available with fairly narrow string spacing - not standard Fender spacing. Not sure how far off it is. That is certainly one big advantage for the Novak which can be had in just about any configuration you want.

I was wondering about that...thanks for the info Doner!

I am still thinking it might be close to the right spacing for the old Gibson build I am planning. Any specs on the exact width of the poles?

Judging by the photo, this one seems to be standard Fender width and although it doesn't fit perfectly, it would probably work fine. They are using it for their promo photo too.

Guild_BiSonic.jpg
 
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Best Bass Gear told me the spacing is the same as for the Guild bass that uses those pickups. You could probably look that up or email BBG.

I just started a project using Nordy Big Singles which is probably the closest thing to the DS available, but the DS is so much cooler looking.

Ah, found it -for those that are interested:

Vintage Bisonic Starfire spacing is 15.6mm and the wider Fender spacing is 17.4mm.

So Curtis has several options. The direct EB-0 replacement route I see:

EB-0-2.jpg


The Fatbucker:

EB-AA-2.jpg


And the modded bisonic:

EB-BS.jpg


Not trying to hijack the thread - but it's great to know I have a few options!
 
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Well, I sprung for a set of the Bisonics. They will be replacing a set of Guild humbuckers, so I don't think routing will be an issue.
I'll let everybody know how it works out.
 
I knew they were making them, of course, the Starfire and the other new reissue have them - did not know they were available separately, though, thanks! I have 2 pair of the Novaks, expecting great things from, but project progress has been slow. One advantage of Curtis' BS-DS version is that you can get the coil tap on it, more flexibility.
 
I tried one of the newark street M85 basses at chicago music exchange. It was not a bad sounding bass but it sounded almost nothing like my 1966 Starfire with an original hagstrom bisonic in the same position. The Novak BS/DS pickup that I had (wound to vintage specs) was as close to the original hagstrom pickup as I've ever heard. The first bass I tried it in was a 1964 Guyatone solid body. Even though it was not a semi-hollow like my 66 Starfire, it still sounded very similar. Here's a demo clip (the recording is a bit quiet, so it's best listened to with headphones or quality speakers)

My findings after owning several basses with vintage hagstrom bisonics, several basses with hammond dark stars, and one novak bs/ds; the early hagstrom bisonics are my favorite and the novak comes the closest. Worth every penny. He makes every one by hand and has worked on the design for a long time before they ever came out. Not to mention he is an expert at what he does. Since TONE is the most important thing to me, I don't mind paying him for his time, his research, his expertise, his craft, and the perfect tone that results from it.
That being said, if I ever see a set of these mass produced Guild remake pickups, used on ebay for under $150, I'll definitely happily give them a try, though I won't expect them to sound like a hagstrom bisonic.