Guitar Center Screwed Me Again

[ultra60]

I bought 6 used basses off GC online over the course of a year. 5 were returned because, in my opinion, each had some kind of issue. The one I kept was sold within a year. For me, it was almost more of a catch and release game.

 

[gfen]

Websites are not updated instantly after a purchase.

Yes, they are. It's 2016, not 1993. E-commerce is no longer a buzz word, and real time inventory control is vastly more affordable and easier than manual control.

Maybe Joe Luthier who runs a static webpage to hawk his custom builds is hand-updating his page after every sale, but I can garuntee you that any corporation willing to make a 10K investment has a instant ICS in place to do this. That's why everything has an item number, and this is why they can't make sales if their computer system goes down. It has nothing to do with them not being able to accomplish simple math and everything to do with teh fact that they can't reach out to mothership for inventory control.

Why is this a difficult concept to understand? Are you so blind-sided with unreasonable hate for a chain of stores that you can't possibly accept that they're not secretly conspiring to dick you over at every turn?

 

[gfen]

It wasn't me that it happened to pancake. Now get off your high horse before you fall and break something.

Ignorance must be defeated, and you're perpetuating it.

 

[The Bass Clef]

Unless one is a software developer, computer science major, or software engineer, these types of posts show just how ignorant one can be of how this stuff works. "If only...", "In this day and age...", "With cutting edge technology they should...". Perhaps those complainers could enroll at MIT or Stanford and create a whole new relational database system. Society rewards those very handsomely who can create such and then have the whole world adopt it.

Now, GC could use the opposite form of database locking where if one person browses an item, no one else can browse it. The item either gets flagged as "Sold" or "No Longer Available". Some on-line merchants use this method, perhaps those you mentioned above. The problem for many merchants, is that if customer #1 decides not to complete the transaction for whatever reason, the sale is lost as customer #2 already moved on.

For some merchants, this is an okay scenario, part of what developers call their 'business rules'. But for large merchants, those lost/delayed sales can add up into serious dollars. If an item sits and sits, it costs a retailer money. So big retailers use database locking that allows two people to browse an item, but the one that gets processed first gets it. (There is even more stuff going on behind the scenes that determines what gets processed first, and it's not as obvious or cut-and-dry as one might imagine.)

Imagine this scenario: Customer #1 walks into a store and sees at an item on the shelf where only one is available. We don't know if he will actually buy it, is just kicking the tires, window shopping, etc. Do you let a second customer "see" that item on the shelf also, or should a cone of blackness shroud that item while customer #1 is staring at it? Some say yes, so customer #2 will then move on to another store. What happens if customer #1 cannot complete the transaction for whatever reason. His card is declined, wife shows up and forbids it, etc., etc. Now the retailer lost that sale until another customer, perhaps customer #2, perhaps another customer, comes in at a later time, maybe even months later to buy it. That merchant lost money having the item sit on the floor longer than necessary than if he allowed both customers to "see" the item at the same time.

People who have to call others ignorant because it makes them feel smarter are what makes this website just the best. What would the world do without insulting bass players who are experts in everything. I'm sitting here laughing at you.

 

[The Bass Clef]

Ignorance must be defeated, and you're perpetuating it.

I didn't realize you're on such a noble quest to rid the world of perpetual ignorance. At least we can all rest easy that there's people like you who can determine for everyone what's ignorant and what's not and fight the good fight. PM your address so I can send you your medal.

 

[birminghambass]

Sometimes I think the Mods must feel like employees at a day care...

 

[The Bass Clef]

Sometimes I think the Mods must feel like employees at a day care...

Little kids aren't experts on everything yet like TBers, so it's probably a lot easier to moderate a day care.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

People who have to call others ignorant because it makes them feel smarter are what makes this website just the best. What would the world do without insulting bass players who are experts in everything. I'm sitting here laughing at you.

I didn't say that to make myself feel superior. I've only had two semesters of SQL and just a bit on locking. What I called out as ignorant is when people make blanket declarations like 'because so-and-so does it this way, why can't they? Perhaps GC is on a legacy Oracle system that makes fine tuning the databse to reflect these things impossible at the moment, but may be a long term goal once financing opens up. Large organizations can't change things overnight. Perhaps the small shop is using a new protocol like Kentico, and that can't be scaled up as big and fast CG wants it to be right now. Regarding your small retailer with immediate updates, perhaps your browser is current to reflect frequent PHP or JS updates in the shopping cart, but the OP was on an outdated browser that wouldn't reflect the change, even if it was coded in. It reminds me of when Trump stated that he was going to get together with Bill Gates and figure out a way to turn off the internet for muslim people. Or when Trump stated that his can of hairspray couldn't deplete the ozone layer because he was using it in his apartment which in his mind is 'sealed'. This thing has turned into a witch hunt against CG by people who know nothing of what is actually going on. That is what I call out as ignorant. Again, not to make me feel superior.

 

[Mvilmany]

This issue revolves around an outdated inventory database system. The online store and the local GC retail store where the bass was sold don't have cloud based inventory systems that sync up in real time. That would be the solution. Considering GC's financial issues, I don't foresee them sinking money into this any time soon. Could the retail staff members edit the web database if they sell a used product? Yes, technically, but in reality, this would be a IT nightmare and probably end up being LESS accurate. you don't want the new part-time sales person screwing around with inventory systems.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

This issue revolves around an outdated inventory database system. The online store and the local GC retail store where the bass was sold don't have cloud based inventory systems that sync up in real time. That would be the solution. Considering GC's financial issues, I don't foresee them sinking money into this any time soon. Could the retail staff members edit the web database if they sell a used product? Yes, technically, but in reality, this would be a IT nightmare and probably end up being LESS accurate. you don't want the new part-time sales person screwing around with inventory systems.

Spot-on!

For a company with CG's amount of transactions, that's a multi-year, multi-million dollar project for a huge team of developers. In the developer world, the 85% solution is the goal (unless you are writing software for an airliner or robotic operated surgeons tool). If they are hitting or exceeding that, no need to change systems.

 

[CoffeeLove]

Yep, has happened to me. Tends to happen when something "seemingly good" is finally posted at a "decent" price and others jump on it first, or someone buys it direct "in" the store. The web-based system seems to lag and items remain available on-line. Sorry for your frustrating experience. GC sucks and you can either take the chance (knowing you will get a refund) or say goodbye.

 

[The Bass Clef]

I didn't say that to make myself feel superior. I've only had two semesters of SQL and just a bit on locking. What I called out as ignorant is when people make blanket declarations like 'because so-and-so does it this way, why can't they? Perhaps GC is on a legacy Oracle system that makes fine tuning the databse to reflect these things impossible at the moment, but may be a long term goal once financing opens up. Large organizations can't change things overnight. Perhaps the small shop is using a new protocol like Kentico, and that can't be scaled up as big and fast CG wants it to be right now. It reminds me of when Trump stated that he was going to get together with Bill Gates and figure out a way to turn off the internet for muslim people. Or when Trump stated that his can of hairspray couldn't deplete the ozone layer because he was using it in his apartment which in his mind is 'sealed'. This thing has turned into a witch hunt against CG by people who know nothing of what is actually going on. That is what I call out as ignorant. Again, not to make me feel superior.

Oh man, you're right, a musician asking a question about why a company can't employ an IT system that another company uses is very ignorant. I admit that I forgot that we as bass players are supposed to know the ins and outs of the IT world too. Because of your wise words, I'll try my darndest to never ignore IT system capabilities again.

 

[fretter]

I don't see how they screwed the OP. A real "steal" will go quickly. I usually follow the rule, any purchase over $10, I'll wait a day. I can't even tell you how many times I moved my last GC purchase in and out of the shopping basket. I may not get a real steal that way, but still a good deal.

 

[bwoodman]

I finally learned my lesson with GC USED gear. I bought a EB/MM Sterling 4H that was maybe 20 years old - had the natual "satin" finish, which they haven't done for a while. The neck was way too forward bowed / tried to adjust the truss rod clockwise to tighten and bring it back straight / I got nothin' - stripped! I took it right back and got the refund. It would have taken about 30 seconds for someone to check this before listing it! It was not disclosed in the listing. Most stores have techs or send their repairs out and they could have fixed this one before listing it too, but whatever - I'm done with GC used gear. I've had ZERO problems with used gear on ebay and more recently reverb.com.

 

[Plutonium244]

I have bought over 200 used basses from them.

Holy moly.

 

[Dluxe]

 

[wintremute]

They took my cc info for something that was purchased by someone else the evening before...

Did they charge your cc?

 

[DigitalMan]

I know there's a ton of websites already (even some mom and pops shops in all types of retail) that handle the issue of 2 people buying the same item online... Once something is sold online, it immediately changes the item to "no longer available/out of stock", so I don't see that being an issue at all really. Auto parts retailers have had that tech for well over a decade now. I can't see why GC couldn't adopt 15 year old tech for that particular issue. Darren Riley (a very small in comparison to GC) online music parts store has that tech on their site. I know becasue I've wanted to buy multiples of the same item from them and it stopped me becasue I bought the last one already, and it was instant.

As far as the issue of having multiple retail stores and one comprehensive website all interacting together, I don't believe it's 1000xs more complex than I imagine as you say... or even 10xs. I say that because with all the thousands of different types of retailers in the world (outside of the musical instrument biz) I can't imagine that people haven't already seen a need for that type software, and that it doesn't already exist in several forms to choose from already. I'm not saying it's cheap, but I don't believe GC would have to pay millions and millions to have an IT company custom make it for them. Just buy what's already been invented. Carmax comes to mind as a first thought.

The problem is connecting two very large and very different systems. Inventory right now is on what appears to be a mainframe or midrange system (see prior comment about 3270 emulators). The website is clearly a different system.

Right now the data interchange between these two systems is apparently done using batch processing. That is normal for the mainframe world. You won't have realtime with batch processing.

Moving inventory to a new system instead of the mainframe would be the first step necessary before even writing the first line of code on the website.

I could write for hours and still not drive the point home, but I will use an anaology instead.

Let's say you are a passenger on an airplane, and I am an airplane design engineer. You correctly state that there is insufficient armspace on the plane. Ok, that's fair. But then you go on to state that Boeing should simply make the plane three feet wider and the problem would be solved. That would also be true. But then I try to explain to you how much work, time, and money it would take to do so. Nearly everything about the airplane would need to be designed, validated, tested, retooled, etc. from the ground up. You then say "Oh, I don't believe that. Airbus makes an airplane that is wider." You would have no real basis for arguing about the cost, complexity, or effort ot takes to make a significant design change to an airplane, but the fact is making a plane three feet wider would take nearly a decade from start to finish, and cost umpteen billions of dollars.

It's the same thing here. You don't appear to have a basis for estimating cost, time or effort for a significant technology transformation project. Not many people do unless they work in the business and have experience with projects similar in scope. This is not an appeal to authority. It is simply trying to make a distinction between the ability to guesstimate the cost of a big ticket project with versus without having experience working on projects similar in scope, effort, and cost.

 

[RumbleRocker]

I recently purchased a Fender amp from GC used but I called the store directly and had the person on the other end first tell me the condition of the amp and then bought it over the phone with my CC.

Personally, I've been very pleased with GC and the whole process.

 

[okcrum]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

That's Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law. It sure seems to apply to this thread (or any amp thread).

BTW, when you "charge" something to a credit card (online or in person) the ONLY thing that happens in real time is authorization for the purchase. The major credit card companies and banks batch their transactions (just like GC) on a 24 hour cycle. That's why all charges have delayed reporting; they don't happen immediately.

I didn't have to get into IT to learn that.