Guitar player, timing discussion

[Raenil]

1) Timing can be learned, don't let anybody tell you anything else.
Keeping the Beat | StudyBass
2) Timing is a lot easier when you know the parts, se keep practice at home and rehearsal at rehearsal.

 

[lfmn16]

at his insistence, I'm now on my 5th different way to play my bit. No change - therefore it leads me to conclude as I did from the first way that the problem lay elsewhere.

You aren't doing him any favors by playing it wrong.

I didn't read the whole thread so maybe someone suggested it, but I'd record it and listen back as a group. If he can't hear he's playing it wrong, then there is no sense in continuing.

 

[mambo4]

My Latin bass lines got waaaay tighter when I learned the freaking percussion parts.
So Maybe Switch your guitar parts on the songs that cause trouble so each knows what the other is playing.

Other than that chart it out and compare recordings

 

[QORC]

you're never going to improve someone. not really. you have three choices

1. Convince the other band members to fire/replace the guitarist
2. Stick with it and say nothing
3. Quit

that's really about it

 

[coyote1]

Have you had a breakout session? That is, just the two guitars without the rest of the band?
Bass and drums cover up lots of stuff, and make it hard to pinpoint the issue.

the Eagles are touring this year. They have what they call “fear sessions” (or something like that) where they don’t play, but just sing their harmonies. It exposes the errors. You have to be strong to allow yourself to get called out on your errors, but it’s the only way to tighten things up.

EDIT: someone mentioned the two guitars switching parts on the song. That is a phenomenal idea! I play many instruments, and it benefits me enormously to know what’s expected and what others are expecting.

 

[mrcbass]

I always prefer to take a "we" approach to work out this kind of issue even when I'm pretty sure I'm right.

"This noise we're making isn't sounding right. I think it should be X, here's my reasons. What supports your argument that you are doing it right?"

And work through what ever it takes to make it sound right - even if the "solution" is technically wrong (compared to the original version). Pointing at him or yourself is not really the answer.

And honestly there's a much easier solution - pick different songs. There's a lot of choices on what to cover - why put the band through so much heartache trying to work on something that just doesn't fit the personnel. It's fine to have a few "lofty goal" songs that you muck about with when you're not prepping for a gig, but I hate burning polish time fighting over a song that is just a struggle.

If the band's mission is to play music that is too hard for a member, it's time for a new member - it doesn't matter who was there first; it matters that they fit the mission statement moving forward. A bit harsh, yes, but it sounds like you don't have the right people for your current goals - or vice versa.

 

[smurfco]

Have him work through this:

https://www.amazon.com/Funk-Guitar-Private-Ross-Bolton/dp/0634011685/ref=asc_df_0634011685/

In my opinion this is the best book ever for improving someone's timing re: rhythm guitar (and in general). Even if you're not playing funk.

 

[AceOfBassFace]

Record yourselves and listen back - any issues should be obvious. If the GP in question can't recognize that he's playing the parts wrong or with poor rhythm then you have a problem.

Good news is if he's receptive to working on his timing, it's an easy fix. Practice to a metronome. Try setting it to half the BPM so the clicks fall on the 2 & 4 (snare hits). I had a similar problem as your GP with timing when I was starting out and found this method to be really helpful since it forced my internal clock to provide the 1 & 4 beats.

 

[TheReceder]

It's been said, but I'm kind of a repetitively redundant guy. Click tracks and recordings. You might be surprised to find that there's something else in the band that's having an impact on the other guitarist. Could even be ..... the bass player?

BTW... always good to have a non bassist pop in once in a while. Welcome.

 

[turf3]

Another factor could be note length. Maybe both of you need to crisp up your note lengths and attacks.

 

[stomp944]

My Latin bass lines got waaaay tighter when I learned the freaking percussion parts.
So Maybe Switch your guitar parts on the songs that cause trouble so each knows what the other is playing.
Other than that chart it out and compare recordings

Yeah (at least for Learn To Fly), switching parts could resolve the dissonance.....

 

[stomp944]

Another factor could be note length. Maybe both of you need to crisp up your note lengths and attacks.

Ha, possibly. He's kinda 'strummy', I'm more 'attacky'.

 

[And I]

If they're both tight, which I'm assuming they are, the guitars and keys can pretty much play anything they want to in key, and it will sound good.

i could not possibly disagree more with this. when guitarists / keyboard players are using different phrasing / playing clashing rhythms it sounds like a wall of indistinct noise. it makes the entire band sound extremely amateurish no matter how good and tight the drummer and bassist are.

i like the suggestion of having both guitarists play along to a click separately and see who is on and who is off. i also like the suggestion of the other guitarist being fired if they can't learn to play the more difficult songs correctly, or you leaving the project if nothing changes. life is too short...

 

[stomp944]

Have you had a breakout session? That is, just the two guitars without the rest of the band?
Bass and drums cover up lots of stuff, and make it hard to pinpoint the issue.

Yup. Several times. We can match each other without percussion, which is why I concluded that it was likely a timing issue... thanks!

 

[Ralph Manak]

+1 on: record, click, and the brilliant idea (thanks @mambo4) of switching parts (this as a regular exercise for a sectional rehearsal would be skill-building and could be fun). In addition, play at low volume and at slower tempo to better hear (and learn to listen to) what's going on. I would encourage this as a regular practice vs just doing it once—it's something worth getting better at. The main challenge: overcoming inertia.

 

[Axtman]

I recommend recording your practice and listen to the recordings. "The tape never lies!" That way it will avoid the arguments of "You can in early!" "No, you came in late!"

 

[Deleted member 365158]

I agree with every post that suggests recording (and it doesn’t have to be multi track) A lot of good comes out of being able to hear back what went wrong and by who... hopefully the individual that messes up or plays incorrectly hears it themselves and works on it and they are not being called out.
If that doesn’t help, there may be bigger issues.

 

[Topkat13]

but the members are good people, I like the songs and its better playing than not playing, since as you all know, there are guitar players littering every bloody street corner looking for a band.

It appears to me you’ve answered your own question.

 

[Blackjac97]

During my music store career one of my guitar customers came back after buying a metronome a few days earlier. He told me he threw it against the wall in a fit of rage claiming that it didn't keep time with him.

This is good. This, right here, is classic.

 

[Bass Viking]

and you should always aim to be the worst player in your band

I know what you’re saying and I agree with the sentiment, it’s just the way you worded it.