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Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses

#681
skycruiser said:
I probably won't be able to stop in and play it again until late next week. Not a high priority now that I have my bass at home!
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OK, I lied. Due to an odd rearrangement of plans after work today, I had time to kill, so I stopped by Sam Ash to check up on the short scale acoustics. They still had the MK, Taylor and the Ibby PNB, plus several Kala uke basses with the rubbery strings. So I did another unamplified comparison of those first 3 basses.

I have to stand by my previous review of the MK bass. Of those 3 it lagged far behind in terms of feel and sound. The strings are stiffer than the others, probably because they are larger gauge, which I think kills one of the big attractions of the short-scales for me (flexible strings). The MK has what I would call a reedy, thin sound with no low end at all. It almost sounds like you're hearing the bass from a distance or outdoors with a lot of wind noise. I tried covering the hole just to see if sound coming through that side port was part of the difference. It did lower the volume but did not round out the sound. The strings appear to be in good shape visually, unlike the PNB which had some visible corrosion or aging. I didn't hear anything special about the E string - on top of the sound issues noted above, similar to other basses, the E had slight muddiness.

Here's a pic of the one I played.

20190418_171851 (Large).jpg
 
#682
Just to be sure I communicated what I was hearing well:

It definitely isn't the loudest. But I'm a person that doesn't measure stuff like that, because for me, all acoustics need to be plugged.

I'm not calling it the best warm, round tone. It's not. There are other acoustics out there that are warmer sounding. But, the notes on the bass just ring very clean, with, again, that E having great clarity. This bass will sit in the mix very nicely in a duo/trio situation. I'm very confident of that.

Someone mentioned that the MK felt stiffer. than the others in this class. Yup. Those strings Are stiffer than the strings on the others. They are thicker gauge, and at this scale, I think that's a giant plus. We're at a reedonculously short scale with this class of basses, and we can use all the help we can get that comes from gauges thicker than 90s.
 
#684
SBassman said:
Just to be sure I communicated what I was hearing well:

It definitely isn't the loudest. But I'm a person that doesn't measure stuff like that, because for me, all acoustics need to be plugged.

I'm not calling it the best warm, round tone. It's not. There are other acoustics out there that are warmer sounding. But, the notes on the bass just ring very clean, with, again, that E having great clarity. This bass will sit in the mix very nicely in a duo/trio situation. I'm very confident of that.

Someone mentioned that the MK felt stiffer. than the others in this class. Yup. Those strings Are stiffer than the strings on the others. They are thicker gauge, and at this scale, I think that's a giant plus. We're at a reedonculously short scale with this class of basses, and we can use all the help we can get that comes from gauges thicker than 90s.
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For me (and for right now), unplugged is all I care about, because I don't have an amp and probably won't be able to buy one for a year or so. When I was at Sam Ash today I checked out the little 40W Ampeg with a short scale electric. I spent about 20 minutes fiddling with all the knobs on both the bass and the amp and never found a decent tone. I've got a lot of work ahead of me if I want to find the perfect amp for my Ibanez. I'll probably end up going with whatever I can afford and gets positive reviews on this site, and figure it out from there. Honestly, I don't even know what sound I would try to get out of an amp with my acoustic bass. It'll be fun figuring it out when I get there.
 
#686
Now that I have a pair of 4Ks, I was more inclined to continue the string experimenting.

I previously tried to put the LaBella CB40s on the first one and immediately took them off after seeing one of the strings was sitting too low in the slot, buzzing badly. Anyway, last night I tried with the new one, and the strings went on perfectly. Perfect intonation. Which now prompts me to get a new nut for the other one.
 
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#687
SBassman said:
Now that I have a pair of 4Ks, I was more inclined to continue the string experimenting.

I previously tried to put the LaBella CB40s on the first one and immediately took them off after seeing one of the strings was sitting too low in the slot, buzzing badly. Anyway, last night I tried with the new one, and the strings went on perfectly. Perfect intonation. Which now prompts me to get a new nut for the other one.
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Having tried steel-core strings on my Ibby AVNB1E, that’s definitely the way I would go too.

It’s not just about intonation- the tension is so low with steel cores on such a short scale, that the inner harmonic content of each note sounds “off”, even on the open strings.

I don’t hear that on regular, 30” short scales, but when you get to 25” or less, it seems to be unavoidable.
 
#688
steve_rolfeca said:
It’s not just about intonation- the tension is so low with steel cores on such a short scale, that the inner harmonic content of each note sounds “off”, even on the open strings.

I don’t hear that on regular, 30” short scales, but when you get to 25” or less, it seems to be unavoidable.
Click to expand...

That has been my experience, too. Except that I'd add that short scale Chromes sound really nice on the Fender P-Bass Jr. , which is 28.6" scale. That fact that it's strung through-body _might_ have something to do with that.
 
#691
steve_rolfeca said:
Having tried steel-core strings on my Ibby AVNB1E, that’s definitely the way I would go too.

It’s not just about intonation- the tension is so low with steel cores on such a short scale, that the inner harmonic content of each note sounds “off”, even on the open strings.

I don’t hear that on regular, 30” short scales, but when you get to 25” or less, it seems to be unavoidable.
Click to expand...
Having never played one, I don't speak from experience, but if there's a tension difference between rope-core and steel-core, would that be enough to account for both the intonation AND the feeling of the string being too low in the slot? Do these instruments come with a truss rod? I wonder if loosening the truss would help both problems....
 
#692
In my particular case, it was definitely a single nut slot. I did play with the truss rod, and it couldn't be solved that way. The second bass was perfect with both the stock strings and with the CB40s. I'm now heading down the rabbit hole of graphite nut replacement. :)
 
#693
SBassman said:
I saw a reference to this bass and these strings in another thread, and I would love to know more about them. If anyone knows more, please write.

Magma Transpositor acoustic bass and strings

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View attachment 3120442

View attachment 3120443
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Wow. I'm a huge fan of short and guitar-scale basses and this one with special strings is REALLY tweaking my GAS!
I want to learn more.
 
#696
TBLuthier said:
This is a very well made instrument. It is however a Spanish guitar. Flat fingerboard. Small, very small frets. Solid walnut sides. Laminated top and back. Tight string spacing but suits me fine. Only a few small dribbles of glue squeeze-out to be seen upon a cursory look. (Haven’t had time to get inside). Impressive looking lateral side braces Loud for its size but quiet due to the nylon cores. I really haven’t played it or even looked at it too much but the joinery is exemplary. Save the scarfs. They are off center a bit but that may be due to the assemetrical carve of the neck. I’ve not put calipers on anything yet. Great onboard tuner. Tracks the B perfectly. Nice EQ

I hope that this answered a few questions and I’ll do a proper review ASAP. For 750 USD, I feel as if I got a much better deal than Magma got building it for me

I’m very fortunate to have discovered the info about this bass in this thread. I’m quite glad that I bought it and I’m not a gear-guy these days. It’s been over 2 years since my last bass purchase and 20 before that.

The sound hole has the walnut aroma...
Click to expand...

How's it going with the new bass?
 
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#697
Well, a smarter man likely would not have ordered it just before his busiest time of year... I’m liking it quite well. It hasn’t been plugged into an amp but once or twice for just a minute or two so, not much to say on that front save it did appear to have a nice, even string volume balance.
It’s doing a fine job meeting my expectations in that I’m using it for solo... campfire? Work if that makes any sense. The short scale and soft strings make for rather easy chording, strumming and slap-pluck trickery. Enough to wow a small audience. I have yet to try it on a gig bit I wouldn’t hesitate to do it and I’m looking forward to it. Just need to find the time.

I’d be happy to answer specific questions if that would be helpful. Short answer is, I love it.

Oh, I left the tuner button depressed which silences the output and overnight the battery drained even though the bass was unplugged. Oops.
 
#699
TBLuthier said:
...Oh, I left the tuner button depressed which silences the output and overnight the battery drained even though the bass was unplugged. Oops.
Click to expand...
On the flip side, while the tuner in the Ibanez AVN (and presumably the PNB) times out, saving the battery IF it’s unplugged, it also means that you shouldn’t try to use it as a mute when plugged in.

When plugged in, the moment the tuner times out, your output is live again. No battery savings, and no protection against unwanted feedback.

FOH had to rush to mute my channel, after mine abruptly went into massive feedback during a band break for a video presentation...
 
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