Guitar Scale Acoustic Basses

[KohanMike]

Or less down-pressure...

I think the angle of the tailpiece mount might be too high to put enough pressure on the saddle, so I figure it will need to be bent a little.

 

[tymbrewolf]

Might as well try flats then as a test

 

[SBassman]

Ok, washing my hands of the string research.

I just put the DAddarios back on, and I'm going to try to bond with them. That's it. I'm enjoying this bass too much to have it down. The DD's work, and they are stable, and they will suffice for me. Back to actually playing it.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Do not follow my lead and buy Silverbacks. I just don't get it. There is No Taper on these strings. None.

I Can Not put the E string on the bass. Just wasted $45. And - I no longer have a bass to play, because my previous CB40 E will not go back on. [disintegrated] [many expletives deleted]

That the La Bella Silverbacks (MBLNS, which I guess stands for "Micro Bass La Bella nylon strings") don't taper was established in this post by @bholder, from the string-specific thread on guitar-scale basses in the relevant sub-forum:
Acoustic bass 25.6" scale
Since they have a 37" full-winding length, and the Gold Tone Micro Bass (which I've never seen IRL, but almost certainly) doesn't have the first tuning post at 37" from the ball-end anchoring, this means that the strings are meant to be installed full-thickness on the post. This prompted my musings, in my post below that one, on whether nylon-cores need the same attention that is necessary with steel-cores and different required winding lengths and, if not, why some of them (Hannabach and Savarez contrabass strings) come in different lengths at all then.
In turn, @cavemanbass specified that the D'Addario EXPPBB190GS strings are also untapered:
Taylor GS Mini-e Bass
as are the La Bella CB40 contrabass guitar strings, obviously since they're made for 75cm scale instruments.

Questions are, in no particular order:
- does the .115 E string not fit the tuning post on the Ibanez PNB14E at all? only the centre hole or also the slot? could the latter be filed wider to accommodate it, without the (cut) end of the string being fed into the former?
- or is it that you don't feel comfortable installing the string, with or without mods, because it may unravel as the CB40 did when removed and reinstalled?
-can the size of the tuning post on the Ibanez - which seems to be smaller than the (typical ukulele-bass -type) post on the Gold Tone - factor in?
-what can you tell us, by observing the ends of the respective strings, about the nature of the core of the CB40 vs. the D'Addarios vs. the Silverbacks? are they a solid monofilament or nylon silk? If of both sorts, which is which? Do you think one type vs. the other may explain different expectations of durability at the post?

Thanks for the patience.

 

[bholder]

That the La Bella Silverbacks (MBLNS, which I guess stands for "Micro Bass La Bella nylon strings") don't taper was established in this post by @bholder, from the string-specific thread on guitar-scale basses in the relevant sub-forum:
Acoustic bass 25.6" scale
Since they have a 37" full-winding length, and the Gold Tone Micro Bass (which I've never seen IRL, but almost certainly) doesn't have the first tuning post at 37" from the ball-end anchoring, this means that the strings are meant to be installed full-thickness on the post. This prompted my musings, in my post below that one, on whether nylon-cores need the same attention that is necessary with steel-cores and different required winding lengths and, if not, why some of them (Hannabach and Savarez contrabass strings) come in different lengths at all then.
In turn, @cavemanbass specified that the D'Addario EXPPBB190GS strings are also untapered:
Taylor GS Mini-e Bass
as are the La Bella CB40 contrabass guitar strings, obviously since they're made for 75cm scale instruments.

Questions are, in no particular order:
- does the .115 E string not fit the tuning post on the Ibanez PNB14E at all? only the centre hole or also the slot? could the latter be filed wider to accommodate it, without the (cut) end of the string being fed into the former?
- or is it that you don't feel comfortable installing the string, with or without mods, because it may unravel as the CB40 did when removed and reinstalled?
-can the size of the tuning post on the Ibanez - which seems to be smaller than the (typical ukulele-bass -type) post on the Gold Tone - factor in?
-what can you tell us, by observing the ends of the respective strings, about the nature of the core of the CB40 vs. the D'Addarios vs. the Silverbacks? are they a solid monofilament or nylon silk? If of both sorts, which is which? Do you think one type vs. the other may explain different expectations of durability at the post?

Thanks for the patience.

Very good summary.

 

[SBassman]

That the La Bella Silverbacks (MBLNS, which I guess stands for "Micro Bass La Bella nylon strings") don't taper was established in this post by @bholder, from the string-specific thread on guitar-scale basses in the relevant sub-forum:
Acoustic bass 25.6" scale
Since they have a 37" full-winding length, and the Gold Tone Micro Bass (which I've never seen IRL, but almost certainly) doesn't have the first tuning post at 37" from the ball-end anchoring, this means that the strings are meant to be installed full-thickness on the post. This prompted my musings, in my post below that one, on whether nylon-cores need the same attention that is necessary with steel-cores and different required winding lengths and, if not, why some of them (Hannabach and Savarez contrabass strings) come in different lengths at all then.
In turn, @cavemanbass specified that the D'Addario EXPPBB190GS strings are also untapered:
Taylor GS Mini-e Bass
as are the La Bella CB40 contrabass guitar strings, obviously since they're made for 75cm scale instruments.

Questions are, in no particular order:
- does the .115 E string not fit the tuning post on the Ibanez PNB14E at all? only the centre hole or also the slot? could the latter be filed wider to accommodate it, without the (cut) end of the string being fed into the former?
- or is it that you don't feel comfortable installing the string, with or without mods, because it may unravel as the CB40 did when removed and reinstalled?
-can the size of the tuning post on the Ibanez - which seems to be smaller than the (typical ukulele-bass -type) post on the Gold Tone - factor in?
-what can you tell us, by observing the ends of the respective strings, about the nature of the core of the CB40 vs. the D'Addarios vs. the Silverbacks? are they a solid monofilament or nylon silk? If of both sorts, which is which? Do you think one type vs. the other may explain different expectations of durability at the post?

Thanks for the patience.

Excellent. Thanks for posting that.

- The slot is also not wide enough. The tuners on the Ibanez have very slim slots. There is No Way that Silverback E is ever going on the Ibanez. Unless La Bella wants to send me some E replacements with tapers. [I did write to them, but I don't imagine that is going to yield.]

- I am unable to determine anything about the DD design. I *think* - not 100% positive, but I *think* - that the Silverbacks and the CB40s are the identical string - just in different gauges.

- I was unhappy both because it wouldn't install, and yes, because I would be concerned about unravelling if I had to take the string off. Even with the thinner gauges of the CB40, that E disintegrated on me after I had to take it off and put it back on. Not understanding why these strings don't have a taper, and not understanding why DD also skipped a taper on theirs. Not understanding at all.

 

[cavemanbass]

That the La Bella Silverbacks (MBLNS, which I guess stands for "Micro Bass La Bella nylon strings") don't taper was established in this post by @bholder, from the string-specific thread on guitar-scale basses in the relevant sub-forum:
Acoustic bass 25.6" scale
Since they have a 37" full-winding length, and the Gold Tone Micro Bass (which I've never seen IRL, but almost certainly) doesn't have the first tuning post at 37" from the ball-end anchoring, this means that the strings are meant to be installed full-thickness on the post. This prompted my musings, in my post below that one, on whether nylon-cores need the same attention that is necessary with steel-cores and different required winding lengths and, if not, why some of them (Hannabach and Savarez contrabass strings) come in different lengths at all then.
In turn, @cavemanbass specified that the D'Addario EXPPBB190GS strings are also untapered:
Taylor GS Mini-e Bass
as are the La Bella CB40 contrabass guitar strings, obviously since they're made for 75cm scale instruments.

Questions are, in no particular order:
- does the .115 E string not fit the tuning post on the Ibanez PNB14E at all? only the centre hole or also the slot? could the latter be filed wider to accommodate it, without the (cut) end of the string being fed into the former?
- or is it that you don't feel comfortable installing the string, with or without mods, because it may unravel as the CB40 did when removed and reinstalled?
-can the size of the tuning post on the Ibanez - which seems to be smaller than the (typical ukulele-bass -type) post on the Gold Tone - factor in?
-what can you tell us, by observing the ends of the respective strings, about the nature of the core of the CB40 vs. the D'Addarios vs. the Silverbacks? are they a solid monofilament or nylon silk? If of both sorts, which is which? Do you think one type vs. the other may explain different expectations of durability at the post?

Thanks for the patience.

The Sulverbacks are solid core, the daddarios are multi strand.
I posted somewhere the details of how I installed the silverbacks on my Taylor. Had to file the string slot at the bridge, and use the bridge pin in the traditional manner (Taylor has a slotted bridge pin design). At the tuners, only the fat E is a problem. After cutting to length I used a pair of pliers to flatten a small section of string so it would fit in the slot.
I’ve had those strings mounted for over 6 months now, no unraveling and the tuning stays very steady. Intonation is near perfect at the 12th fret.

 

[SBassman]

Thanks. If you are inclined please post a link to that description especially if there are pics.

 

[HaphAsSard]

The Sulverbacks are solid core, the daddarios are multi strand.
I posted somewhere the details of how I installed the silverbacks on my Taylor. Had to file the string slot at the bridge, and use the bridge pin in the traditional manner (Taylor has a slotted bridge pin design). At the tuners, only the fat E is a problem. After cutting to length I used a pair of pliers to flatten a small section of string so it would fit in the slot.
I’ve had those strings mounted for over 6 months now, no unraveling and the tuning stays very steady. Intonation is near perfect at the 12th fret.

Thanks!
I've found the post you mentioned, to the benefit of Mr. @SBassman but also mine and of whomever else it may concern:

So, after asking on a couple different threads about string options for the Taylor mini I decided to take one for the team... tried some alternate nylon core / metal wound strings: the Gold Tone / Labella silverbacks (.049 - .115) and the Kala Ubass silver plated (.050 - .110).

The Kala have a multi-strand core like classical guitar strings. They have a dual metal wrap (silver plated bronze I believe); the E string is tapered at the ball end for easier installation, and all strings are tapered (i.e. just the first wrap is present) at the tuners. I put them on with a bit of trepidation, tuned up, plugged in and... Ahhhh... SO much better sounding then the Taylors; much beefier tone, with a nice low mid fullness that was totally lacking before and which even EQ could not fix. Compared to the Taylors which sound like a guitar that is tuned down an octave, these sound like BASS! Still a lot of string noise, but careful playing along with rolling off some highs brings a great tone IMO.

The GT / Labella are very interesting, with a solid nylon core and a single metal wrap (also silver plated bronze afaik). There is no tapering possible, so these are more challenging to install for the E string (on both sets the A-G strings are easy to install and fit right into the split bridge pins). I had to widen the groove leading from the pin hole to the saddle slightly using a nut file, and at the tuner I used pliers to flatten the wrap so it would fit into the tuner slot. No way it would fit down the hole of the tuner. Once tuned up the E string has been holding fine for 2 weeks now (over-wrapped so the strings are locked in). For my tastes, these strings are a notch better then even the Kala's, with a nice deep sound and less finger noise though there is still some noise compared with flats or rubber Ubass strings. I LOVE playing the Taylor now, and would not hesitate to use it on an acoustic gig.

Compared with my Breedlove ABG / TI flats the Taylor has less growl and less complexity in the upper register. The longer scale and the flats also have a smoother feel, not just because they are flats but something about the response is just more refined. However, the Taylor is really fun and due to the shorter sustain works really well on certain kinds of feel, especially up-tempo stuff. To me, it's another great flavor of bass to have in the quiver.

Note that for both of the string sets, I had to install the E string in the traditional way at the bridge with the ball end tucked in front of the pin rather then through the pin slot. Not sure I see a big advantage to the split pin design, it's a bit easier to install the strings but I never had any issues with traditional bridge pins so to me the new Taylor pin design is maybe a case of a solution looking for a problem. Time will tell!

Initially I did not enlarge the nut slots, and surprisingly the Kala set played ok that way. However, some of the strings did bind so that tuning was not smooth. I was lazy and did not take care of the issue right away, brought the bass to a rehearsal and ended up breaking the A string at the tuner; I think that it built up too much tension when I tuned up since the string was sticking in the slot. I then re-sized the nut slots, installed the Labellas and haven't had any issue since.

It's been a total of three weeks now since I first mounted up the Kala's. These strings are definitely higher tension then the skinny little Daddarios, but I haven't noticed any bulge in the top at the bridge. Also did not have to adjust the truss rod. But if anybody wants to try them, just be aware that it's only been a few weeks and I'll feel much more confident after 6 months to a year. I'm willing to take the risk because I could not stand the sound of those wimpy strings.... IMO the heavier gauge strings make this into a whole different instrument.

Have you by chance kept the Kala 110 E string? If you have, could you measure how long it is, ball to start of taperage? If it tapered before the tuning post on your Taylor GS Mini-e bass (23.5" scale), I guess it might fit the Guild Jumbo Junior Bass (23.75") but it probably would be too short to clear the nut on the 24.75" Ibanez PNB14E (let alone ≥25" models). Still, you know, curiosity?

I also wonder if @Roger Blackman too got around to trying the Silverbacks on the Taylor.

Excellent. Thanks for posting that.

- The slot is also not wide enough. The tuners on the Ibanez have very slim slots. There is No Way that Silverback E is ever going on the Ibanez. Unless La Bella wants to send me some E replacements with tapers. [I did write to them, but I don't imagine that is going to yield.]

- I am unable to determine anything about the DD design. I *think* - not 100% positive, but I *think* - that the Silverbacks and the CB40s are the identical string - just in different gauges.

- I was unhappy both because it wouldn't install, and yes, because I would be concerned about unravelling if I had to take the string off. Even with the thinner gauges of the CB40, that E disintegrated on me after I had to take it off and put it back on. Not understanding why these strings don't have a taper, and not understanding why DD also skipped a taper on theirs. Not understanding at all.

Thank you for following up.
A similar question about used, and in your case busted, strings: do you still have that broken CB40 E string? is the core visible on that one? it it solid, as the Silverbacks have according to cavemanbass? Thanks again.

EDIT - Oh, and a partially off-topic question: above I've said that the La Bella CB40 are also "untapered", which I intended to mean "functionally untapered, as far as using them on a guitar-scale bass". But do they taper at all, after ~30" length, or are they going, uhm, all-in at the tuning post even on their intended instruments (4-string contrabass guitars, in practice classical guitar -style ABGs)?

 

[tymbrewolf]

There is also the ortega strings you could try. They have guitar sized ball ends and fit ary the bridge much better on my Ortega than the daddario. Being a flat guy, I had to sand them as they were harsh to my poor hands

 

[tymbrewolf]

Pics of ortega's

 

[tymbrewolf]

 

[SBassman]

EDIT - Oh, and a partially off-topic question: above I've said that the La Bella CB40 are also "untapered", which I intended to mean "functionally untapered, as far as using them on a guitar-scale bass". But do they taper at all, after ~30" length, or are they going, uhm, all-in at the tuning post even on their intended instruments (4-string contrabass guitars, in practice classical guitar -style ABGs)?

No taper at all. Don't know why.

 

[SBassman]

Had to try to take a better pic of my bass. Still isn't a great one from the phone. Love this bass. Went away this weekend and took it with me.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Played my Ibanez PNB14E yesterday at this little stage, with our neo-oldtyme band New River Bound... totally unplugged. (the electricity was out... )

We're not too loud anyway, so it was okay, but I was really looking forward to this gig with that little bass through my Acoustic Image/BagEnd rig. There'll be another time.

 

[tymbrewolf]

That is a nice pic!

Still thinking of selling as this 24.6 scale is just 1.5" to long.

 

[MakoMan]

Got to play my little Ibanez live for the first time yesterday at an outdoor food festival on the Main Street of our little town. We set up in the temporary outdoor patio of our finest local establishment, which was right in the center of the event. There were several thousand people on hand and we had an amazing time. Also got great feedback and everyone seemed to be taking photos or videos of us with their phones.
More importantl to this thread, the bass was great... by the second set we had completely bonded

 

[KohanMike]

Played my Ibanez PNB14E yesterday at this little stage, with our neo-oldtyme band New River Bound... totally unplugged. (the electricity was out... )We're not too loud anyway, so it was okay, but I was really looking forward to this gig with that little bass through my Acoustic Image/BagEnd rig. There'll be another time.

That's why I always use a battery powered amp; a Phil Jones Double Four with recommended laptop battery, a lithium motorcycle battery and inverter for my Carvin MB15, and Blackstar Fly3 rig. And just to stay within the gist of the thread, I only play 21-24" scale bass. (I received the Kala red Journeyman last week, but changed the strings to Thunderguts because they match the binding nicely, getting a new nut made, so much for my dislike of their stickiness. Still waiting for the Aquila ShortBassOne 60.)

 

[scotch]

Got to play my little Ibanez live for the first time yesterday at an outdoor food festival on the Main Street of our little town. We set up in the temporary outdoor patio of our finest local establishment, which was right in the center of the event. There were several thousand people on hand and we had an amazing time. Also got great feedback and everyone seemed to be taking photos or videos of us with their phones.
More importantl to this thread, the bass was great... by the second set we had completely bonded

View attachment 3146012

A) That bass looks cool!

B) You can always count on the electric guitarist to bring a bazooka to a knife fight. "It's an ACOUSTIC gig, Tyler!!!! Go get your Champ!" ;-)

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Has anyone checked out the Anuenue MBS14E 36” acoustic bass yet?

MBS14E Feather Bird－36inch Solid Top Bass

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