Guitarist problems and suggestions to help the situation?

[bbao]

Hi everyone,

I am the bass player for my band and we have been doing wedding gigs for ~ 4 years now. It is not our main jobs nor do we have constant gigs. I would say we average 15-25 gigs a year. We have all been friends for a while now and do not plan to switch up any players unless someone wants to quit.

Now to the problem:
For the whole 3-4 years that we have been gigging, the guitarist has 2 issues.
1. He relies on his ipad for charts for every song.
2. He hesitates to start every song that he is supposed to start, causing a delay in between songs rather than smooth transitions.

He is a great guitarist who has been playing for more than a decade now (ever since highschool). I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.
I have grown to accept him using an ipad for charts for every song (even though we have been playing majority of the songs for 3 years so I assumed he would have memorised it by now).
For the second issue however, I keep telling him that he should start immediately because even if someone happens to not be ready, he can repeat that first progression without it sounding weird or there being a long awkward silence.

We have recently increased our prices so I feel that, for the money that we're charging nowadays, we shouldn't be having long pauses between songs nor relying on ipads 99% of the time.
With that being said, I keep an ipad hidden behind me purely for the set list alone and only ever need to glance when we have to shorten the set list due to wedding events going over time.

So now my question:
Does anyone have suggestions for how I can help my guitarist get over these issues?
Or are my standards just too high for what is essentially a side hustle?

 

[Gluvhand]

Hi everyone,

I am the bass player for my band and we have been doing wedding gigs for ~ 4 years now. It is not our main jobs nor do we have constant gigs. I would say we average 15-25 gigs a year. We have all been friends for a while now and do not plan to switch up any players unless someone wants to quit.

Now to the problem:
For the whole 3-4 years that we have been gigging, the guitarist has 2 issues.
1. He relies on his ipad for charts for every song.
2. He hesitates to start every song that he is supposed to start, causing a delay in between songs rather than smooth transitions.

He is a great guitarist who has been playing for more than a decade now (ever since highschool). I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.
I have grown to accept him using an ipad for charts for every song (even though we have been playing majority of the songs for 3 years so I assumed he would have memorised it by now).
For the second issue however, I keep telling him that he should start immediately because even if someone happens to not be ready, he can repeat that first progression without it sounding weird or there being a long awkward silence.

We have recently increased our prices so I feel that, for the money that we're charging nowadays, we shouldn't be having long pauses between songs nor relying on ipads 99% of the time.
With that being said, I keep an ipad hidden behind me purely for the set list alone and only ever need to glance when we have to shorten the set list due to wedding events going over time.

So now my question:
Does anyone have suggestions for how I can help my guitarist get over these issues?
Or are my standards just too high for what is essentially a side hustle?

Sounds like it's become a psychological crutch for him because after three years if he's not remembering the songs, he's got problems you can't fix.

 

[ChrisB2]

I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.

I hate to say it, but there ya go. What else can you do?

I don't think your standards are too high, but if you can't tolerate this you might have to replace him.

 

[Killing Floor]

Rehearsals.

And video a gig and show him. But get the rest of the gang on board so it’s not feeling like an assault.

Say “I think we all need to tighten up our transitions”. Make it “us” not “him”.

and fire the drummer

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

The tablet is a crutch. In one band I play with, the front man and the keyboard player use charts, but it is even worse. They won't do tablets. They insist on these giant 400 page ring binders sitting right in front of them. I think the are both hiding behind them. And they don't take time before a gig to put them in set list order. You talk about time between songs. I stand there while the flip through pages trying to find the next song. But wait, there's more! The average number of songs before we go off list is about 3.
So, I feel your pain. I keep thinking I want to quit, but a gig is a gig. I still get paid.
I just hope nobody I know shows up at those gigs.

 

[bbao]

Sounds like it's become a psychological crutch for him because after three years if he's not remembering the songs, he's got problems you can't fix.

That's a scary thought. Hopefully someone will have personally had that experience on here and can suggest a means to overcome that.

I hate to say it, but there ya go. What else can you do?

I don't think your standards are too high, but if you can't tolerate this you might have to replace him.

Not sure. I thought maybe it's just the way I'm wording things or that fact that maybe it's coming from me alone. I told the rest of the band not to chime in because I didn't want it to feel like we're ganging up on him.

Rehearsals.

And video a gig and show him. But get the rest of the gang on board so it’s not feeling like an assault.

Say “I think we all need to tighten up our transitions”. Make it “us” not “him”.

and fire the drummer

Our rehearsals have been weekly in the past. These days it's more fortnightly though.

That's true, I do provide feedback after every gig and encourage the others to as well. It usually revolves around team feedback like that then goes into individual components.
Perhaps I am starting to sound like a broken record and my feedback is being overlooked.

It was a thought that maybe the drummer was throwing him off

 

[gln1955]

Good flow with short transitions is something you can practice during rehearsals, just like you do your songs. Make it a point for everyone to rehears just like you are playing the gig.

The iPad, well, he has to be self-motivated to wean himself from it. There's not much else you can do if his position is not on the line.

 

[bbao]

The tablet is a crutch. In one band I play with, the front man and the keyboard player use charts, but it is even worse. They won't do tablets. They insist on these giant 400 page ring binders sitting right in front of them. I think the are both hiding behind them. And they don't take time before a gig to put them in set list order. You talk about time between songs. I stand there while the flip through pages trying to find the next song. But wait, there's more! The average number of songs before we go off list is about 3.
So, I feel your pain. I keep thinking I want to quit, but a gig is a gig. I still get paid.
I just hope nobody I know shows up at those gigs.

Pure nightmare, I see

 

[Muttleybass]

Not sure you can do anything about the chart crutch. I have the same problem with our singer. (sigh)

For the second issue, one thing we do in rehearsal is four song blocks. As in, rehearse four songs like you're playing one.

I tried to explain it to my own band mates like we are putting together a play in three one hour acts (or 4-45's). Each set is one act and should be rehearsed as such... to the point where we don't vary the set list much at all. Even spots for banter are placed where maybe a drop D tune is, or pedal set up. To me, rehearsal isn't just for harmonies and endings, it's for the in-between. I've always felt that's how you create a "show".

 

[J Wilson]

A lot of us reading this have done many five sets a night with no songs repeated with no more than a set list, certainly no charts: Once it was rehearsed up and then played in over time, you just call them out, count them off, and you're off and running.

If this guy can't do that, you need somebody else. Or at least unplug or shut his lap top and see if he can play or not play your set.

When you step in a stage, it's time to stand and deliver . . . without crutches.

You're trying to be civilized about it, but bands aren't democracies, there has to be a band leader. Step up.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Your standards are NOT too high. Dead air is a killer. Video your next show (or a live rehearsal). Compare it with videos of more professional bands.

The tablet Ican live with, as long as you have a few people to engage the crowd. You are there to entertain, not be a jukebox.

 

[sean_on_bass]

If he otherwise performs well i would count my blessings and just kind of deal with it. These sound like minor gripes to me but i also am NOT a wedding gig guy. Now if you truly feel it is hindering the experience to the point of detriment for your clients, then you have to find a new guitarist.

 

[Beej]

I agree that you're not expecting too much. That said, if they haven't changed with the current tactics, they are unlikely to change with the same approach.

Regarding the songs that he starts, I think you just need to take that away from him. Have the drummer start counting in all songs. It doesn't have to be a giant crashing of sticks in the air before each song, but have the drummer count in each of those songs in a way that works for the song, and when he comes in, he still starts the song. This might relieve the pressure from him and get rid of the issue.

Regarding the reliance on the tablet, what is he using it for, charts? I think you have to talk about how it looks - it's not a deal breaker for people to see a tablet on stage, but it's pretty lame, and goes best with socks and sandals. If the entire band wants to retire it, then collectively be supportive of his working through rehearsals without it, and accept any flubs. If he constantly uses it as a reference when he practices, rehearses and plays live, then it's probably well incorporated into his muscle memory and needs to be worked through over time to reduce the reliance on it.

Good luck, if these are your only problems, you're doing better than most bands according to TB.

 

[Leigh Semmens]

My memory for charts was never good. I must always have a chart in front of me. HOWEVER. I'll happily learn the songs. use a tablet with the set list IN ORDER and start playing as soon as appropriate. I've always been able to remember phone numbers for as long as I need them so, now that I've converted most of my charts to NN system, I should be able to ditch the iPAD for songs that get played regularly.

 

[Wasnex]

Seems pretty obvious that he's not going to change. It's not super obvious that this is a problem for anyone except you.

Off the top of my head here are some choices:
1. Accept it and stop worrying about.
2. Don't accept it->

b. Quit and find another band.
b. If there is consensus with your bandmates, replace the guitarist.
c. Keep the guitarist and hire another guitarist or keyboard player who can keep things moving along
​

In my experience playing in bands tends to be messy and frustrating to some degree. So, consider your options carefully. Your choice may ruin a long-term friendship and there is no guarantee that whatever situation comes next will be an overall improvement.

Good Luck!

 

[LiptonJigglers]

The entire history of music was never faced with this problem.
They either got thier chops together or they'd wind up working in a gas station.
Bloody guitarists...
1: Remove ipad.
2: Write set list on paper. Include song Key if you like.
3: Duct tape set list to mic stand or floor. Preferably in front of musician.
4: have the drummer count in for the next song as soon as the song ends and go straight into the next song... if the Ramones can do it, it can't be to hard.
5: If the guitarist, bloody guitarists, can't keep up, practice until he can.
6: if after some time the guitarist still can't function like a normal person, throw him out with the ipad, get another guitarist.
Psychological problems or not, you are not a psych therapy clinic.
Many past musicians had psych problems yet they still started songs on time and played music fine without Ipads.
The only thing we all have is time. Nobody really knows how much exactly. You can spend that time carrying others or you can spend that time making music.

 

[mambo4]

I don't think the ipad is a big issue. if the rest of the band is vibrant and engaging audiences can put up with it.

As for not starting immediately, just have someone else start it who can deliver.
If the guitarist complains explain that the other player starts immediately.
Maybe he'll get it by then, maybe he won't. But the problem gets solved.

 

[mrperkolator]

…I’m gonna go a different direction… @bbao does he have pedals to control iPad? I saw some Bluetooth ones used for page turning. Perhaps this will get him on the right chart quicker and back to music.

Tablet wouldn’t bother me as much as awkward silence. Perhaps singer should practice “crowd engagement” during expected silence.

lots of good ideas here. I’m trying to offer different approach. Let us know what ends up working.

 

[ebo]

The IPad is WAY better than a giant songbook on a music stand. If you’re playing standard fare for three years and he still needs charts that’s mind blowing. Does his attention get lost on the IPad? I’m not a fan of musicians who dont engage the crowd and help create a party. Video and watch it objectively. It might not be that bad. Or maybe it is.

 

[TheReceder]

While playing in multiple bands I went old school and used charts... had someone talked to me and said they didn't like it. I'd have stopped. I was sneaky, generally people couldn't tell, but when the setlist changed, that's when I got rattled.
I finally weened myself off. but the rest of the bands still relied on Tablets. felt good when I was confident that I could play anything... the only thing I had, the key of the songs on the setlist.