Guitarist problems and suggestions to help the situation?

[Five or Six]

Maybe I missed something here? I don't see the makeup of your band. 2 guitars, keys, drummer. 3 piece, 5 piece? It would make a difference if I had that problem. I'd go around him on starts by using someone else. If he couldn't follow the group, I'm afraid he would have to be replaced. Friend or not bands are a business. Supposed to be fun but, you are at work. I don't know of many businesses that put up with substandard employees for very long.

This will sound rude but, from my standpoint as BL, if after 3 years and you are BL, and the problem still remains, you created the problem by not handing it as soon as it became one. Friend or not, a band is only as good as it's weakest link.

 

[dune]

This will sound rude but, from my standpoint as BL, if after 3 years and you are BL, and the problem still remains, you created the problem by not handing it as soon as it became one. Friend or not, a band is only as good as it's weakest link.

Rude? Sounds spot-on to me.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hi everyone,

I am the bass player for my band and we have been doing wedding gigs for ~ 4 years now. It is not our main jobs nor do we have constant gigs. I would say we average 15-25 gigs a year. We have all been friends for a while now and do not plan to switch up any players unless someone wants to quit.

Now to the problem:
For the whole 3-4 years that we have been gigging, the guitarist has 2 issues.
1. He relies on his ipad for charts for every song.
2. He hesitates to start every song that he is supposed to start, causing a delay in between songs rather than smooth transitions.

He is a great guitarist who has been playing for more than a decade now (ever since highschool). I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.
I have grown to accept him using an ipad for charts for every song (even though we have been playing majority of the songs for 3 years so I assumed he would have memorised it by now).
For the second issue however, I keep telling him that he should start immediately because even if someone happens to not be ready, he can repeat that first progression without it sounding weird or there being a long awkward silence.

We have recently increased our prices so I feel that, for the money that we're charging nowadays, we shouldn't be having long pauses between songs nor relying on ipads 99% of the time.
With that being said, I keep an ipad hidden behind me purely for the set list alone and only ever need to glance when we have to shorten the set list due to wedding events going over time.

So now my question:
Does anyone have suggestions for how I can help my guitarist get over these issues?
Or are my standards just too high for what is essentially a side hustle?

I wouldn’t worry about the iPad so much. Until about 5O years ago, wedding bands had sheet music, and were sitting behind music stands.

As for the guitarist, for the songs he starts, count him off.

Personally, I’d rather have dead air than a crash.

 

[MotorCityMinion]

Only the upper echelon of professional musicians are permitted to use charts. How dare he.

 

[BassBrass]

The entire history of music was never faced with this problem.
if the Ramones can do it, it can't be to hard.

I love your historical perspective. I don't know how you can do pop music that isn't memorized pretty quickly
by both notes and by body/somatic memory. Going "off book" is part of the whole thing...

But the Ramones aren't a good example if "if they do it it can't be hard"-ism because the Ramones were like a drill team, there was no more millitant group when it came to fast transitions. It was part of their whole show concept and they were all in agreement about it.

 

[dune]

Hi everyone,

I am the bass player for my band and we have been doing wedding gigs for ~ 4 years now. It is not our main jobs nor do we have constant gigs. I would say we average 15-25 gigs a year. We have all been friends for a while now and do not plan to switch up any players unless someone wants to quit.

Now to the problem:
For the whole 3-4 years that we have been gigging, the guitarist has 2 issues.
1. He relies on his ipad for charts for every song.
2. He hesitates to start every song that he is supposed to start, causing a delay in between songs rather than smooth transitions.

He is a great guitarist who has been playing for more than a decade now (ever since highschool). I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.
I have grown to accept him using an ipad for charts for every song (even though we have been playing majority of the songs for 3 years so I assumed he would have memorised it by now).
For the second issue however, I keep telling him that he should start immediately because even if someone happens to not be ready, he can repeat that first progression without it sounding weird or there being a long awkward silence.

We have recently increased our prices so I feel that, for the money that we're charging nowadays, we shouldn't be having long pauses between songs nor relying on ipads 99% of the time.
With that being said, I keep an ipad hidden behind me purely for the set list alone and only ever need to glance when we have to shorten the set list due to wedding events going over time.

So now my question:
Does anyone have suggestions for how I can help my guitarist get over these issues?
Or are my standards just too high for what is essentially a side hustle?

You have been unsuccessful in changing this other person for some time now despite your best attempts.
Your band is comprised of good friends and changing personnel is off the table unless they quit.
Given the above, might it be time to consider changing what you actually can - your expectations?

 

[Kipp Harrington]

Hi everyone,

I am the bass player for my band and we have been doing wedding gigs for ~ 4 years now. It is not our main jobs nor do we have constant gigs. I would say we average 15-25 gigs a year. We have all been friends for a while now and do not plan to switch up any players unless someone wants to quit.

Now to the problem:
For the whole 3-4 years that we have been gigging, the guitarist has 2 issues.
1. He relies on his ipad for charts for every song.
2. He hesitates to start every song that he is supposed to start, causing a delay in between songs rather than smooth transitions.

He is a great guitarist who has been playing for more than a decade now (ever since highschool). I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.
I have grown to accept him using an ipad for charts for every song (even though we have been playing majority of the songs for 3 years so I assumed he would have memorised it by now).
For the second issue however, I keep telling him that he should start immediately because even if someone happens to not be ready, he can repeat that first progression without it sounding weird or there being a long awkward silence.

We have recently increased our prices so I feel that, for the money that we're charging nowadays, we shouldn't be having long pauses between songs nor relying on ipads 99% of the time.
With that being said, I keep an ipad hidden behind me purely for the set list alone and only ever need to glance when we have to shorten the set list due to wedding events going over time.

So now my question:
Does anyone have suggestions for how I can help my guitarist get over these issues?
Or are my standards just too high for what is essentially a side hustle?

Pray

 

[Krakmann]

Salud!

As said, the tablet is a mere crutch. Recently, I "liberated" the singer the one of my bands by simply taking the iPad before the rehearsal and saying him to have a go. And it went great and he felt really liberated and sometimes he has to repeat a verse because he forgets the next one and nothing happens and the world keeps spinning. Every gig since then he thanks me for that.

Of course, first try this at a rehearsal.

In the same band, the drummer used to keep us waiting more than I'm comfortable with between songs because of the metronome, of all things. Until he finds a better solution, we resolved it by

1) simply talking to him about it. He knows he's taking too long and now he strives to be faster.

2) using 2 metronomes, so he can have 2+ songs prepared.

It seems a stupid problem with miriads of better solutions, but well. The last show went great in that respect.

 

[SLO Surfer]

Have the drummer count in every song immediately. Guitarist will have to start.

 

[Ostie]

I (we) use a set list because I can’t remember 30 songs and the order they are in. There is one song that for the life of me I can’t remember the lyrics in the right order. But I won’t use an IPad or charts.

I have a friend who uses an app that will scroll the lyrics. I can’t remember the name of it. But I’m just too old school.

 

[BadSanta1281]

Have someone else count in the songs he starts.

This is the answer. Simple solutions work better than amateur psychology.

 

[bherman]

Have the drummer count in every song immediately. Guitarist will have to start.

Agree with this - iPad is no big deal as long as it’s properly mounted on a mike stand so it looks like part of the gear.

 

[51PRI]

...use a tablet with the set list IN ORDER and start playing as soon as appropriate.....

This is the only thing I thought of that might work. OP, have your guitarist arrange the songs on his iPad in the order of the set list and play the songs like that. As has been said, practice going quickly from song to song at rehearsals.

 

[Chris Wilke]

I’ll share a recent experience that might help if you want press forward.

I joined a new band about a year ago. It was an established band that has been together 8 years or so. They have a practiced “schtick” that they do and are very energetic and entertaining on stage. Lots of energy. They frown heavily on having sheet music on stage. But they understood I was learning the repertoire and as the bass player I was only expected to stand in the back and hold things down with the drums while the frontpeople do their thing (4 horns that take turns on lead vocals). They told me no worries if had a music stand on stage as I was learning the repertoire and doing well- no complaints.

But they were all a buit rusty coming out of a COVID hiatus and music stands at rehearsal was a bit of an established practice and we were also adding a few songs that were new to everyone. The front people were expected to get everything memorized by the next gig.

Then at one rehearsal the trombone player had a suggestion: we’d play through a song once with no sheet music, no matter what- train wreck or not. We are all friends so no professional pride to worry about. The idea was to show ourselves what we remembered and what we didn’t. Then practice the song again with sheet music so we could play it correctly and get it under our fingers before moving on. The order was backwards of what you’d want. It was amazing. First we all said we knew a lot more of the new songs than we thought. And, we also knew exactly what parts to study to get the songs memorized. By the next gig I needed just 1 chart for one tune and by the gig after that, I didn’t need any.

So forced practice without the crutch of a music stand helps stretch one’s ability to memorize in my experience. It’s also a fun way to remind everyone about the goal.

 

[Chris Wilke]

Another thing I’ll share that really helps me memorize tunes is the “Magic Method” as given to me many years ago by a piano teacher who is amazing musician, teacher and human being. I don’t always use it, but when I do it always works. Probably because it’s magic!

The cool thing about the Magic Method is it works for both memorization and initial learning of a song - both at the same time. By the time you can play a song, you’ll have it memorized. But it requires discipline - the Magic only works if you do it right.

The Magic Method, assuming a typical 32 bar tune, for example:

Learn bar 1 until it is memorized and you can play it well.

Learn bar 2 until it is memorized and you can play it well.

Play bars 1 & 2 until memorized and you can play them well.

learn bar 3 the same way

learn bar 4 the same way

learn bars 3 and 4 the same way

play bars 1, 2, 3, 4 the same way

learn bar 5

learn bar 6

play bars 5 & 6

learn bar 7

learn bar 8

Play bars 7 & 8

play bars 5, 6, 7, 8

Play bars 1-8 which should be 100% memorized by now.

Then, repeat for other sections. Learning each section as a unit before adding to the rest of the tune, but playing with the rest of the tune before going onto yet another new section.

This assumes a 32 bar tune with common 8 bar phrases, you would need to vary it as needed for odd length phrases.

I’d also suggest skipping the intro at first and learning it last - the intro usually makes the most sense if a song is already memorized.

Try it, it works! But do not vary it unless the song form demands it (Like an odd number of bars in a phrase).

 

[ChrisB2]

He's still on crutches?? You'd think after 3 years his leg would be healed by now!

 

[BassyBill]

I gigged with a so-called pro female vocalist once who turned up with a ring binder full of lyrics printed in tiny fonts that she couldn’t read under stage lighting. She spent the entire time on stage with her nose buried in the folder which was lifted right in front of her face. She never got a second call.

 

[2112]

Don't care about the iPad, some people want to be meticulous or have memory problems. But this only goes as long as it's not disruptive to the show... i.e., he's so buried into it he sounds too clinical or he's missing cues or not engaging with the crowd. As far as the hesitation, have the drummer count those songs in, problem solved.

 

[Marko 1]

Sometimes ya just gotta weigh the good with the bad, 'cause nobody's perfect.

Bottom line, if you get paid and re-booked, your frustration imo is likely unfounded.

Considering the above, firing the guitarist is essentially trying to fix something that isn't broken, and might just bring you more grief considering all the other issues other people can bring.

As for dead air, I've been learning lately that it's not the huge sin that some make it out to be- that's a DJ thing. In fact it might be a good thing, anticipation as to what song is next, and not appearing to be a machine up there.

My buddy, absolutely KILLER singer, is now playing a two-keyboard rig.

Understand that he's NOT a keyboard player (getting better with time), but he's figured out what sounds to use, and it takes him a bit to look at his notes and get the right buttons pushed between songs.

So there's no way to rush him, it just takes a bit of time, and rushing him would probably just make him frustrated and screw up- same would likely happen trying to rush your guitarist.

The good is that it sounds SOOOOO much better with those sounds and the parts he adds, and far better than just a second guitar- totally worth it.

Whatever frustration I feel, I'm just gonna enjoy that we're very-well received (as in, they love us), and we keep getting re-booked, so I have to keep that in my mental equation.

Realize that there are countless not-gigging bands that are obviously doing things that are ACTUALLY wrong.

Count your blessings.

 

[ChrisB2]

As for dead air, I've been learning lately that it's not the huge sin that some make it out to be

Good post, and good point. We play some songs end to end, but then sometimes the leader mulls over which song to do next. We've never had a negative reaction to "not" playing non-stop.... that I'm aware of.

Realize that there are countless not-gigging bands that are obviously doing things that are MORE wrong.

Also realize that non-gigging players give advice on how to properly gig. Nothing wrong with that, but I do keep it in mind when reading these threads...