Guitarist problems and suggestions to help the situation?

[Dan5011]

IMO it boils down to practicing at home & then tightening up at rehearsals.

This all sounds too familiar. Our lead vocalist & guitarist relies heavily on his iPad for charts & lyrics. It really shows in our live performances. The problem he has is that he is focusing on remembering what he is supposed to sing or play instead of playing it to the best of his ability. He also insists on having a light show. To me that should come after the musical performance merits having lights. Whats worse about the lights is that there is an issue with their programming over half the time & he is constantly messing with his laptop trying to figure it out. It's too much work setting it up & tearing it down for the quality of show we are currently doing. & then there is the amp modelers & effects...

We recently lost an excellent keyboardist/sax player because of the lack of preparedness. We have the opportunity to add an excellent lead vocalist but the drummer & I have put a hold on asking because we both feel that we need to remedy some of our issues 1st. The drummer & I have been trying to address this for a long time & losing our keys has motivated us to set some hard boundaries. The trick is addressing these issues directly without feelings getting hurt. Best of luck to the OP & anyone else with similar experiences.

 

[Marko 1]

Sometimes ya just gotta weight the good with the bad, 'cause nobody's perfect.

Bottom line, if you get paid and re-booked, your frustration imo is likely unfounded.

Considering the above, firing the guitarist is essentially trying to fix something that isn't broken, and might just bring you more grief considering all the other issues other people can bring.

As for dead air, I've been learning lately that it's not the huge sin that some make it out to be- that's a DJ thing. In fact it might be a good thing, anticipation as to what song is next, and not appearing to be a machine up there.

My buddy, absolutely KILLER singer, is now playing a two-keyboard rig.

Understand that he's NOT a keyboard player (getting better with time), but he's figured out what sounds to use, and it takes him a bit to look at his notes and get the right buttons pushed between songs.

So there's no way to rush him, it just takes a bit of time, and rushing him would probably just make him frustrated and screw up- same would likely happen trying to rush your guitarist.

The good is that it sounds SOOOOO much better with those sounds and the parts he adds, and far better than just a second guitar- totally worth it.

Whatever frustration I feel, I'm just gonna enjoy that we're very-well received (as in, they love us), and we keep getting re-booked, so I have to keep that in my mental equation.

Realize that there are countless not-gigging bands that are obviously doing things that are ACTUALLY wrong.

Count your blessings.

I'll add a comment on music stands. I don't like them, I reeeealy don't like them, but I'm with old-school guys.

I get them to set them a bit off to the side, and relatively flat so they're not blocking too much, but they use them, and I am NOT going to become a PITA (even if I had this kind of control).

Again, if you're getting paid, gigging steadily, and getting re-booked, you just have to think that maybe YOUR concerns are unfounded.

Here's what I've boiled down to as truly valuable and important (context- weekend-warrior band).

Good vocals and harmonies,

Good setlist (that works for your crowd),

Appropriate Volume (and clean Sound, in my case with older folks- NOT LOUD).

Get those three, and I swear you'll keep gigging.

 

[Swizzledoop]

iPads are ubiquitous enough to be ignored as long as they aren't a loud color or obtrusively large.

Long pauses at a wedding = no bueno. Definitely need to tackle that at rehearsal.

 

[Low End Scum]

It's likely a crutch, but also might be that he needs to practice memorization. In my rock band, I insisted on running our set if we had time the day before or of a show. Mostly for tightening up but also for a refresher. Overall, sometimes someone would forget or beans up parts that they'd been playing for years. Happens to the best of us. He might be very worried that he'll make a mistake like that if he doesn't have the chart and is more focused on a perfectionist rendition than performance

That's the thing a lot of musicians forget, live music is as much a visual art/performance as it is audio.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Hi everyone,

I am the bass player for my band and we have been doing wedding gigs for ~ 4 years now. It is not our main jobs nor do we have constant gigs. I would say we average 15-25 gigs a year. We have all been friends for a while now and do not plan to switch up any players unless someone wants to quit.

Now to the problem:
For the whole 3-4 years that we have been gigging, the guitarist has 2 issues.
1. He relies on his ipad for charts for every song.
2. He hesitates to start every song that he is supposed to start, causing a delay in between songs rather than smooth transitions.

He is a great guitarist who has been playing for more than a decade now (ever since highschool). I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.
I have grown to accept him using an ipad for charts for every song (even though we have been playing majority of the songs for 3 years so I assumed he would have memorised it by now).
For the second issue however, I keep telling him that he should start immediately because even if someone happens to not be ready, he can repeat that first progression without it sounding weird or there being a long awkward silence.

We have recently increased our prices so I feel that, for the money that we're charging nowadays, we shouldn't be having long pauses between songs nor relying on ipads 99% of the time.
With that being said, I keep an ipad hidden behind me purely for the set list alone and only ever need to glance when we have to shorten the set list due to wedding events going over time.

So now my question:
Does anyone have suggestions for how I can help my guitarist get over these issues?
Or are my standards just too high for what is essentially a side hustle?

Have your drummer or BL count off the next song, even if the guitar player will be playing the introduction: he can't or won't do the job, have someone else do it!

Instead of a set list comprising separate songs, create medleys.

 

[Marko 1]

Also realize that non-gigging players give advice on how to properly gig. Nothing wrong with that, but I do keep it in mind when reading these threads...

 

[foulmouthbass]

I taught guitar off and on now for 30 years. It sounds like your guitarist doesnt understand two things: how chord progressions are structured and the harmonized scale ( nashville numbering I, ii, iii.. etc)

Knowing these two concepts changes a sheet of apparently random chords changes into patterns that are more easily remembered. Knowing you essentially only have 7 chords per song that can be used (I know there are exceptions) helps memorize them.

Understanding simple 4/4 time and chord prgressions like I IV V 12 bar blues or I vi ii V helps also. Knowing that verses repeat one chord pattern and choruses repeat different chord patterns (typically but not always) goes along way with memorization. I know I may sound a bit condescending but its very often overlooked.

I would say this was the biggest revelation for most of my students who were expert technical players but couldnt "pull it all together".

It works for pianists who are dependent on sheet music also.

 

[LAST_C]

I don't think the IPad is a big issue. Times change and nowadays I think it's more accepted to use electronic devices in gigs. I've seen a few people doing it. I'm joining a new band and 1st gig is in a little over 30 days. I need to learn like 40 or 50 songs and I will use my Ipad as reference while I learn them good.

That being said, after 3 years of playing the same songs, he should know them by memory. No need for an Ipad unless is to take a quick glance at the set list or the key. As we get older, its harder to remember stuff.

If you guys really like the guitar player and he's a friend, then have someone else start the song. I mean, it's either that or let him go.

 

[BBQisgood]

Lots of folks being pretty rough on the guitarist.

Looks like you’ve got a good band with good gigs, and I’m not sure whether there have been complaints, but it sounds like things are going well.

A question— what is his day job?
Also— what are the day jobs of the rest of the group?

 

[lermgalieu]

The problem with charts is the more you look at them, the more you need them. It takes stepping back (on your own time) and memorizing the charts to learn to play without them. If you habitually use them to perform, it's more than a crutch, it's a dependency. I sometimes get into this loop with harder arrangements - I have trouble memorizing them so I look at the chart in rehearsal (never at gigs, for the most part), and then grow a dependency I have to break.

 

[Marko 1]

...
If you guys really like the guitar player and he's a friend, then have someone else start the song. I mean, it's either that or let him go.

Or, instead of rushing the guy into a train wreck or firing him,

he could just continue gigging with the guy.

or quit himself so a more appreciative bass player could enjoy being in a band that's been gigging regularly for four years.

 

[edot3021]

I went to a piano concerto the other night and mind you I bet this guy has played this song 1-2000 times practicing and at other concerts, but low and behold he had a iPad with the music in front of him. Even worse he had someone else doing nothing but turning the digital page for him. I was so angry and could not believe it. At the end of the piece I stood up, put up my finger and yelled at him. “Bravo!”

Maybe the guy doesn’t want to mess up. Maybe he has a memory issue he doesn’t want to mention. Who knows. I don’t think anyone cares if some band member has charts on an iPad during a gig. Shoot Ozzy has the lyrics on like 3 screens on stage.

Him starting songs I get more. I think focus on that one. Good luck!

 

[Stewie]

thought he was the band leader (his rehearsal space) was adamant about including the drummer.


Set lists? Yeah we changed ours all the time and always had them taped to the floor (I told you I was old school).[/QUOTE]
Taped to the floor and in large magic marker black so we can read it

 

[Nev375]

I think the charts/sheet music/Ipad thing is not as big a deal as many people think it is. What some people see as a crutch or weakness other people will see as a strength or professionalism. (i.e. "he's sight reading like a classical musician does in an orchestra. How professional!") Now, you and I know that's not really the case, but we are musicians and by and large the audience is not and they aren't as concerned about such things as a musician would be.

The same thing can be said about stage presence. Personality-wise I'm more of a quiet introvert, and I'm always more impressed with dudes like John Entwistle or Michael Manring who just stand up there looking down at their fingers and just fricking slaying it. I'm less impressed with guys who are trying to make eye contact with everyone or making faces or trying to "ACT" entertaining. Other people are into it though, so I'm not saying the concept is invalid. What I'm trying to say is 20 different people are going to have 20 different opinions on what's the right way or the wrong way to go about things and we tend to overvalue our own biasses on these matters.

I've always been in the "Just be yourself and do what you want to do and YOUR audience will find you" camp rather than the "Let's do what the majority of the audience want to try to please the most people." But again, that's just my own bias. If you really think your guitarist using an iPad is hurting your band then you certainly don't need my input on the matter. Your decision is alreade made. Just execute.


The other thing I would comment on is the notion of trying to change other people. That's a fools errand. People can change, but you can't change other people. They have to really want to. I have no idea why your guitarist won't memorise things or hesitates song starts. It might be a psychological crutch, or it could be a real disability in play and he might really need them. Again, we tend to assume that our own abilities are universal and other people's experiences would be just the same if they would just... try. But that's not true at all. People are built and wired differently from each other.

What I DO know is that the band can simply select fewer songs that start with guitar or a song ending can be directly linked to the beginning of the next one if it is in the same or relative key. That would be my suggestion to minimise the issue. I'm sure there are other creative solutions that don't involve replacing the guy. But again, these kind of posts are more often just requests for validation to make a decision that someone has already made rather than seeking actual solutions.


Whatever you decide, good luck.

 

[Fiset]

As for dead air, I've been learning lately that it's not the huge sin that some make it out to be- that's a DJ thing. In fact it might be a good thing, anticipation as to what song is next, and not appearing to be a machine up there.

I guess this depends on what sort of band it is because if you're a band that wants the audience dancing (and I fully realize that not all bands have that goal), nothing kills that vibe more than dead air. And honestly, I've never had a single person come up to us and say, "really enjoyed the down time, gave me a chance to anticipate the next song..." In fact, quite the opposite. One of the bands I play in does mostly medley blocks of at least two song medleys, up to 9 songs in a block. We'll take a moment between blocks, but just a moment (never longer than about 30 seconds). There hasn't been a gig we've played where multiple people haven't come up after the show to gush about how great it was that we played pretty much non-stop (especially club/bar owners). Obviously just anecdotal based on my experience but for me, dead air, especially consistent dead air after every song, does nothing to create or maintain the high-energy vibe we're looking to create.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Hi everyone,

I would say we average 15-25 gigs a year. We have all been friends for a while now and do not plan to switch up any players unless someone wants to quit.

Now to the problem:
For the whole 3-4 years that we have been gigging, the guitarist has 2 issues.
1. He relies on his ipad for charts for every song.
2. He hesitates to start every song that he is supposed to start, causing a delay in between songs rather than smooth transitions.

First up, 10 years playing experience for your guitarist isn't enough to tighten up song flow if you're only playing 15-25 gigs a year and you're relying on performance experience alone. This kind of thing usually comes from experience playing out at least weekly.

I was in an event band that worked as infrequently as yours and we had the same problems early on.

What you're describing sounds like a common problem with only 1-2 gigs a month. You're left with using personal woodshed time and rehearsals to work these things out. Mentioning this as a common cause and effect might help mitigate anyone taking any suggestions that follow personally.

He is a great guitarist who has been playing for more than a decade now (ever since highschool). I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.
I have grown to accept him using an ipad for charts for every song (even though we have been playing majority of the songs for 3 years so I assumed he would have memorised it by now).
For the second issue however, I keep telling him that he should start immediately because even if someone happens to not be ready, he can repeat that first progression without it sounding weird or there being a long awkward silence.

We have recently increased our prices so I feel that, for the money that we're charging nowadays, we shouldn't be having long pauses between songs nor relying on ipads 99% of the time.
With that being said, I keep an ipad hidden behind me purely for the set list alone and only ever need to glance when we have to shorten the set list due to wedding events going over time.

So now my question:
Does anyone have suggestions for how I can help my guitarist get over these issues?
Or are my standards just too high for what is essentially a side hustle?

Congrats on taking some of the excellent suggestions here into account and coming up with a plan of action per your later post.

As to some of the other suggestions, it's kinda apparent that some of ya'll have never coached or been coached before.

Like in team sports, it's all about taking action with fundamentals and drills, coming up with an EFFECTIVE practice and game plan and FOLLOWING both. You can't blame the ball player for lack of competent coaching, and you can't blame the musician for lack of competent Musical Direction.

1. Fundamentals should be worked on at home. These include woodshedding the songs themselves and developing confidence through muscle memory. Just saying this doesn't make it so though; I've found it helpful to have stated goals between practices. "May we all agree to have the next three songs assigned ready to perform without any notes or charts by next rehearsal?"
   • Here's the catch. Consequences and enforcement have to be agreed upon in advance. We had a keyboardist who had a problem with woodshedding and memorizing material before rehearsals. On a block of 5 songs, it was determined that anyone who wasn't ready shouldn't bother showing up for rehearsal. When he showed up unprepared, he was told to go home and not come to another rehearsal until he learned the effing music, or words to that effect. He resigned shortly after that, though I've worked with him in other bands on countless other dates since then, and he's never been unprepared since then.
2. Drills can include creating and following a mock transition setlist with notes: Song 1: from the last chorus through Song 2 intro; Song 2: from the last verse to Song 3 1st half verse, etc... Come up with groups of 3-4 songs and run through the drills quickly without stopping until you go through the entire group. Then rinse/repeat 2/3 times through the group before moving to the next group. This allows you to DRILL the transitions for an entire show in the time constraints of a single rehearsal. I'd plan on doing at least a couple rehearsals dedicated to transitions.

IMPORTANT: Before you go insisting that Fundamentals and Drills need to be a primary focus, you'll need everyone to buy in on the idea. You'll need to articulate a concise value proposition and invite everyone's input. "Since we're charging more, and hope to maybe one day charge even more, does everyone agree that we need to provide more value by upping our game?" Then follow with, "How about we all take the last couple shows' videos home and come back with some suggestions?"

When everyone comes back with their ideas, sit, listen, be open to and discuss. Don't offer your observations until everyone else has. They may educate you on some other issues that you hadn't considered, and will give you forward traction in some positive areas. Otherwise, your two concerns with the guitarist will probably be mentioned, though if they're not, then bring them up, followed with these magic words: "Can we all agree that this needs work?"

Then you can summarize the solution above, and present the details in a concise plan of action, again prefacing each with "May we all agree that focusing on woodshedding and getting down our transitions is how we need to proceed?"

Remember, dictates don't work in a band situation unless they're from a band leader and you're all hired guns. Think of your role as volunteer topic co-moderator for these issues; Your job is to help moderate, not direct.

Good coaches often use similar techniques.

 

[Marko 1]

We'll take a moment between blocks, but just a moment (never longer than about 30 seconds).

I hope you meant less than 30 seconds, lol... that's an eternity

Honestly the dead air I was speaking of is maybe 15 seconds.

That said, we are focused on dancers, and between songs they don't run off the floor, they look at us and clap, then wait a moment for the next song. Not a big deal.

 

[Kubicki Fan]

Yeah, I’m a little puzzled about the iPad being that big an issue. I see them all the time now. They look sleek and tech-y clipped to the mic stand. What’s the problem? (If the guitarist is looking at it continuously, so that he can’t ever engage with the audience or his bandmates, now that’s a problem.)

As far as the dead air….sigh. I’m on the wrong side of this one, but it’s a battle I’ve nearly given up on. I was in a wedding band back in the 00s that was very successful with an approach where we’d do a lot of 2-3 song groups, and try to keep the dead air at the end of grouped songs to no more than 10 seconds or so, but we certainly weren’t playing continuously for the whole set….and crowds loved us. (Most of our clients were guests from previous gigs.)

But these days everybody feels like they have to do the continuous thing. I’ve been to several weddings in the past couple of years where that was the approach, and I hate it. I feel like after several high-energy songs, the room really needs to breathe a little. A pause does that. I think the “no dead air” thing may actually be a bit of a crutch for bands that can’t get the crowd engaged. If the crowd is excited enough, their whooping and hollering and clapping will easily cover a 10-second pause, and they’ll stick with you through it because they want to hear more. But if you’re not really moving people, it makes sense to never give them time to notice that and check out.

I hear you but there is a big difference between "managed air" and "dead air".

A smooth controlled flow of your program is essential for creating an enjoyable gig. Rehearsals are the best time to implement and polish the complete performance, not the wedding day.

I am so annoyed by performances that do not plan for this important and quite trivial aspect that even if the songs are well executed, I just want to bail. Hopefully, neither the bride nor groom will feel that way.

 

[Kael]

I have acts that I still use charts on that I have played with for years. How many acts does he play with? I honestly am not going to recall all your material if you book a gig every other month or so given that I play with 5 or 6 acts at any given time. Is it possible that he has a similar issue?

As for delaying on starting songs, that crap bugs me too. Have someone else kick off the song maybe (if possible)?

 

[richntiff]

the iPad is no big deal to any audience anymore - unless it's being used as a crutch. An occasional quick reference, a setlist, controlling your monitor mix, etc - all fantastic uses for an iPad mounted (low) on your mic stand. An iPad mounted up higher (say anywhere shoulder level or above) directly in line and a vocalist staring at it almost all song, every song? It just looks terrible, and usually sounds worse. In my main band our BL has an iPad that is absolutely a huge crutch. To the point that he can't hardly play rhythm guitar or sing if his iPad is not synced to the correct song. If we change the setlist - much frantic page swiping occurs while panic sets in. If say, the LG misses a change and the rest of the band just plays the phrase/section around until everything syncs back up, well, BL literally stops playing and stares dumbfounded at the LG. This happens probably once or twice every gig. When our LS joined the band, it's her first band/gig experience - so he got her hooked on the iPad crutch as well. I'm slowly working to wean her off of it - it's a work in progress, but she sees the issue with it. TWO people staring at the iPads all night??? It's painful for the audience. It's painful for the band. Don't let them do it.