Guitarist problems and suggestions to help the situation?

[nightchef]

Yeah, I’m a little puzzled about the iPad being that big an issue. I see them all the time now. They look sleek and tech-y clipped to the mic stand. What’s the problem? (If the guitarist is looking at it continuously, so that he can’t ever engage with the audience or his bandmates, now that’s a problem.)

As far as the dead air….sigh. I’m on the wrong side of this one, but it’s a battle I’ve nearly given up on. I was in a wedding band back in the 00s that was very successful with an approach where we’d do a lot of 2-3 song groups, and try to keep the dead air at the end of grouped songs to no more than 10 seconds or so, but we certainly weren’t playing continuously for the whole set….and crowds loved us. (Most of our clients were guests from previous gigs.)

But these days everybody feels like they have to do the continuous thing. I’ve been to several weddings in the past couple of years where that was the approach, and I hate it. I feel like after several high-energy songs, the room really needs to breathe a little. A pause does that. I think the “no dead air” thing may actually be a bit of a crutch for bands that can’t get the crowd engaged. If the crowd is excited enough, their whooping and hollering and clapping will easily cover a 10-second pause, and they’ll stick with you through it because they want to hear more. But if you’re not really moving people, it makes sense to never give them time to notice that and check out.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Bribe him with cookies.

 

[fourfinger]

Make the iPad your friend: get ahold of his charts and add the lyrics “ONE TWO THREE FOUR” at the bottom of every song.

 

[LBS-bass]

Have someone else count in the songs he starts.

 

[fretno]

Just don’t ever end a song, have it transition into the next. Btw how long are we talking? As for the ipad try to keep it hidden for a clean stage image but I wouldn’t worry on that.

 

[nnnnnn]

I don't think the iPad is a problem for that type of band. From a wedding guest's point of view, they're not there to focus on your band playing, they just want some background music over dinner and music they can dance to after dinner. They don't care if some or all of the band have charts on iPads, and for that sort of event having extra charts easily accessible like that is a good thing because you're more likely to be able to handle requests.

Hesitation over starting new songs may make people feel awkward on the dance floor. Practice song transitions at rehearsal. Make sure the guitarist has Bluetooth page turn footswitches so that the delay isn't caused by him looking for the next chart.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

I'm an older guy. Computer "pads" were never a problem except for one time, a couple of years back.

We were auditioning a drummer who was very proud of the fact that he could read music, but he read it ALL THE TIME. He committed NOTHING to memory.

He auditioned with four songs (two different times) and had to stop at two crucial (to the songs) times to scroll down his music pad.

I couldn't deal with it. He couldn't learn four songs? That didn't bode well for actually accepting him into the band. The guy who thought he was the band leader (his rehearsal space) was adamant about including the drummer.

I couldn't stay. I hear some bad things about that old situation, but I saw it coming. I guess I dodged that bullet.

In your case, after three years, the guitar player should have ... I don't know ... half the songs memorized?

Set lists? Yeah we changed ours all the time and always had them taped to the floor (I told you I was old school).

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Hi everyone,

I am the bass player for my band and we have been doing wedding gigs for ~ 4 years now. It is not our main jobs nor do we have constant gigs. I would say we average 15-25 gigs a year. We have all been friends for a while now and do not plan to switch up any players unless someone wants to quit.

Now to the problem:
For the whole 3-4 years that we have been gigging, the guitarist has 2 issues.
1. He relies on his ipad for charts for every song.
2. He hesitates to start every song that he is supposed to start, causing a delay in between songs rather than smooth transitions.

He is a great guitarist who has been playing for more than a decade now (ever since highschool). I have talked to him about both issues numerous times.
I have grown to accept him using an ipad for charts for every song (even though we have been playing majority of the songs for 3 years so I assumed he would have memorised it by now).
For the second issue however, I keep telling him that he should start immediately because even if someone happens to not be ready, he can repeat that first progression without it sounding weird or there being a long awkward silence.

We have recently increased our prices so I feel that, for the money that we're charging nowadays, we shouldn't be having long pauses between songs nor relying on ipads 99% of the time.
With that being said, I keep an ipad hidden behind me purely for the set list alone and only ever need to glance when we have to shorten the set list due to wedding events going over time.

So now my question:
Does anyone have suggestions for how I can help my guitarist get over these issues?
Or are my standards just too high for what is essentially a side hustle?

This won't help with your guitarist problem, but if you want to do away with the set list on your hidden iPad, just put each set on a 3x5 recipe card and tape it to the back of your bass. That's what I did when I was touring in the early 70's before anyone had any computers let alone iPads. I could quite literally just tip the top of my '65 Jazz forward slightly to see what the upcoming song would be.

 

[themickster]

High might have some deeper problem that's showing as a lack of confidence. He needs a psychiatric assessment.

 

[themickster]

I'm an older guy. Computer "pads" were never a problem except for one time, a couple of years back.

We were auditioning a drummer who was very proud of the fact that he could read music, but he read it ALL THE TIME. He committed NOTHING to memory.

He auditioned with four songs (two different times) and had to stop at two crucial (to the songs) times to scroll down his music pad.

I couldn't deal with it. He couldn't learn four songs? That didn't bode well for actually accepting him into the band. The guy who thought he was the band leader (his rehearsal space) was adamant about including the drummer.

I couldn't stay. I hear some bad things about that old situation, but I saw it coming. I guess I dodged that bullet.

In your case, after three years, the guitar player should have ... I don't know ... half the songs memorized?

Set lists? Yeah we changed ours all the time and always had them taped to the floor (I told you I was old school).

He can't learn any songs. That's bad. We've found drummers on the night that could play our own songs, without having heard them before.

 

[Free Bassing]

do not let someone who you feel is a high caliber musician hold the band hostage or prevent you from growing. We all know that guitar players are a dime a dozen.

I would always prefer a less capable professional guitar play with a good work ethic, creative ability, and drive, over a virtuoso that lacks any or all those qualities. Some people say you can't teach an old dog new tricks. I believe the only person you can't teach is someone who feels they know everything

 

[Deleted member 368008]

No, there's very little you can do, you've addressed it to him, to no help.

It all reminds me of an open stage jam some month ago, where someone out of the blue (singer only) went up on stage and asked us if we knew "Still Got The Blues" by Gary Moore. We all shook our heads in denial, because we didn't know it. He sort of went on, sour for that, and mumbled, and then I said "No, but neither do you..." he went like a question mark, and said "I do!!" but I asked him "Why do you have to have the lyrics in your cell phone then?" he answered "to read the lyrics" well then I said "Then you don't know it either".

Silence, and off the stage he went.

Yes, I am "That Guy".

- - - - - - - - -

Having a flow, momentum between numbers, as short as possible is paramount. Only if you have tuning problems, and have to tune up again and again, but then that one has to be sorted out, at rehearsal next time, if your instruments are going out of tune all of the time while playing.

 

[bbao]

Thank you everyone for your responses!

I probably should have been more clear about the Ipad thing. The ipad being present isnt much of an issue (it would be great if he could go without but since we're not full time musicians, I dont expect him to commit to memory like me). My issue with his usage is his eyes being glued to it rather than engaging with the crowd as many have said should be the case.
He uses an app that flips pages for him so the flipping isnt the issue - unless his charts got mixed up somehow.


I am loving the idea of rehearsing songs in clusters. I think that will definitely help with the transitioning.

Good point as well about having someone else start more songs. Perhaps relieving some of that pressure of being the starter will help to calm him during our gigs.


In terms of dead air time, I'm not sure but it gets to the point where the whole band ends up looking at him until he gets the message to actually play. It's an odd one since he has the setlist/charts infront of him so he should know that our set hasnt finished yet.


I do have some footage of our gigs so I will definitely review them and see our timing.

Hopefully something good will come out of these ideas. I am not bothered enough to find another band at this point so if things don't end up changing, I may just have to deal with it since many have mentioned that my situation isn't that bad by comparison to other band posts.

 

[db59]

Same here......know a guitarist who is very good, but tunes up obsessively after every song and a short practice of his upcoming parts.....we tried to work this out with him making the set list and where he needed to swap out guitars, tune, etc.....ultimately failed he felt "rushed".........still friends with him, would not play with him in a live situation.

 

[Alper Yilmaz]

As I play in many different bands and projects as a jazz musician, it is impossible for me go sheet music-less on stage. So iPad is on pretty much all the time. But agreeing upon a set list beforehand as well as having a bluetooth page turner speeds up things a lot.

Keep in mind that some musicians have traumas from early ages that they cannot NOT have sheet music in front of them, not that they read it note by note, but rather as a safety blanket. So you should be accommodating your guitarist’s iPad need, as long as the iPad gets in the way of your show!

And do not forget to fire your drummer, instead!

 

[4-stringB]

I have found that trying to "fix" people is an exercise in futiliy. You won't fix them, they'll resent you implying they're less than perfect. I currently work with a guy that thinks he's a tech guru. I found him trying to run four 8 ohm passive monitors off the headphone jack. I see changes in my future, you should, too.

 

[Egg250]

The tablet is a crutch...unless y'all are constantly changing songs. Video a performance, let him see what the audience sees. I'm sure he's seen bands that do clean transitions.

After showing him the video, he will either see your point and work to change. If he doesn't, the band needs to decide whether to keep him or not.

My two cents, it doesn't sound like you do this for a living (neither do I). People are hiring you regularly. If the band dynamics are good and you guys are happy, I wouldn't be looking to replace him.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Can this guy even play a song without the smart device? IOW, can he hear and respond to the chord changes as they're coming down the pike or does he have to see the lyrics with chords overtop? We just fired a guy who embraced the latter even if it were something simple like "Streets of Bakersfield" (3 chords).

Riis

 

[Hummergeist]

At least it's not one of those 'guitarist bad behaviour' threads we see on here. Sounds like a confidence problem, which could possibly be addressed with some considerate and professional outside help.

 

[sawzalot]

Rehearse the show, not just the songs. Practice the transitions, the time talking to the audience, instrument changes, etc. Practice songs without the iPad. It’s just a crutch at this point and he needs some practice in a safe space to be ok without it.