Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I'm puttin mine on for a Mingus tribute concert in a couple of weeks. Maybe that'll help my ulnar neuritis a little bit (obtained from playing spiros on a 44" scale bass).

Funny you should mention this: my hand got a bit sore and numb after playing your bass for a couple of minutes at the Seelbach that night... but it was the right hand, not the left. Does the string length affect the tension as well? It didn't feel that tight to me, but then I play on barbed wire most of the time.

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Coffee all over keyboard!

 

[Mark Perna]

Oh the zeal of the newly converted. I'm expecting to see Kevin and Mark come up the front walk any day now, wearing cheap suits and unfashionable glasses.

They'll knock on the door and ask, "Have you taken gut into your heart?"

Nah. I'm more likely to be sitting on a street corner, spittle flecked on my lips, all of my worldly possessions in a plastic bag at my feet, screaming about gut strings and socialism to anyone walking by.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Nah. I'm more likely to be sitting on a street corner, spittle flecked on my lips, all of my worldly possessions in a plastic bag at my feet, screaming about gut strings and socialism to anyone walking by.

The cool thing is, if it gets that bad, you can always use your gut strings to make a lovely, nourishing broth.

 

[Mark Perna]

The cool thing is, if it gets that bad, you can always use your gut strings to make a lovely, nourishing broth.

Thems good eatin'.

 

[wineaux]

You laugh, but I keep the door to my music room closed at all times. Otherwise, my dog takes an unusual interest in the bass that's strung up with guts. It's true!

 

[simonwilmer]

One of my mutts ate a spare gut g ,I cant afford to play with guts ,what with the cost and the danger of them being eaten.

 

[Marcus Johnson]

Oh, damn... I've heard of dogs munching guts before.... forgot about that!

I think if my dog dined on a set of new Gamuts, I'd be seriously thinking of some Fido stew for dinner.

 

[Mark Perna]

LOL. $400 dogfood.

 

[bassbuddie]

Think about recycling, maybe dog gut make good string.

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Funny you should mention this: my hand got a bit sore and numb after playing your bass for a couple of minutes at the Seelbach that night... but it was the right hand, not the left. Does the string length affect the tension as well? It didn't feel that tight to me, but then I play on barbed wire most of the time.

My right hand doesn't mind it at all, and it usually feels easy on the left too. But, a big chunk of half-position playing done while standing really does my left elbow in with this bass/setup. (Seated, no problem.) Something about a combination of stretching for that whole step (OK, the scale is really 43.75", not 44) and firmly pulling the strings (even with just medium height action) against the board does it.

Maybe my single favorite thing about playing guts is the feeling at the end of the night that you're as fresh as when you started.

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Aw yeah. Dlugolecki plain guts on top, Genssler/TWINE metal wrapped guts on bottom. Played unamplified in a big hall at the dress rehearsal for a concert of Ellington Sacred Concert material and jaws dropped. Nothing like it!

Of course, even trying to bow something simple for a student (the Capuzzi/F major) one hour before resulted only in hilarity, so there's one of the trade-offs.

 

[jrlynch]

you mean doggie floss ...

One of my mutts ate a spare gut g ,I cant afford to play with guts ,what with the cost and the danger of them being eaten.

 

[kurt]

Well, it's been a while since I updated. So I'm going to post a couple developments. Had the privilege of playing on the Millennium Stage at the Kennedy Center, which was a huge learning experience for me. The Millennium Stage is literally a giant hall with two stages on each end. You can tell from walking in that it wasn't designed with acoustic performance (or any performance at all) in mind, but was created as an afterthought. The resulting sound is boomy and muddy. Plugging into the house system with a Full Circle was absolutely horrendous (we had 3 other bass players in the program, so a microphone was out of question). Amplifying Gut is A LOT harder than amplifying steel. There's almost no way to truly recreate the Gut tone through amplification. For the sake of fixing the boominess, Chip Jackson supplied me with a Barcus Berry pickup, which we plugged straight into the house. I was able to cut through the mix and as Wineaux stated, the sound still retained the gut quality to it.

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if you search through the archives (realplayer is required) you will be able to find the two nights i went direct in with the barcus berry. and on the third night (april 3) i went in direct in with the Full Circle. It was so boomy on stage that I played as light as i could, thinking it was as boomy in the audience. This resulted in the engineer turning me up so high you can hear almost every little thing that my finger does. interesting stuff and a great learning experience for me, seeing as I've never been in such a high level recording/performance environment.

I'm back from D.C. and back in New York trying to figure things out with the bass. Decided to start playing lower, so I moved the velcro tape I had on the bass down further on the fingerboard. Debating between playing with two fingers (horizontally) or one finger (vertically). I used to play a couple inches higher and get a mellow tone that i enjoyed but I like the snappy sound that I get from where my fingers are at now.

The gut strings have really settled in and the Garbos complement the gut in terms of feel and sound. They are also quite stable for pitch.

I played on that same stage a couple years ago for the smithsonian folk life festival. As I recall it was horrible sound onstage and off. There's no way to truly recreate ANY kind of acoustic tone through amplification. Even with a mic, it's still coming out of a speaker. But we still try. I don't use gut but I use Innovation rockabilly strings which are the closest approximation I've found. I actually put a Gamut G on for a while and while the tension and feel were similar I took it off because the timbre was just too different for my taste. The rockabillys being a bit brighter with a little more sustain. Some people might really like the combo though.

I find it easier to amplify dark sounding strings with shorter sustain and still retain an acoustic quality. When you turn things up it exaggerates the sustain and if you have spirocores on they'll never stop ringing till you mute them with your hand. with darker strings you can still get that thump. I can also get some of that gut snap. If you add in some high end you can still get some clarity without sounding like Jaco.

I don't know about the stat-B with gut but I've used them with my rockabillys for a year or so and I quite like the tone. it doesn't have the exaggerated sustain that pickups like the underwood have so you can get a really poppy sound. And it's actually a miniature mic so it sounds a little more acoustic to my ear. I just got the new Vektor adjustable mic pickup which sounds even more promising but haven't gotten to try it on a gig yet. Really acoustic sound.

Do you have a preamp with a high pass filter (low cut) on it? It can really help with boomy rooms. I've had the same problem with sound guys that turn the bass or low frequencies up too loud. It often happens when there's a quieter part of a song and the soundguy suddenly thinks the bass is too quiet and turns it up. Then you think it's too loud and start playing quieter so he turns it up more. Pretty soon your tone is ruined and you have to hold back. At the risk of annoying the other band members I usually dig in harder when this occurs so that the soundguy turns it down instead of up. Just my 2 cents, Hope this helps!

 

[Mark Perna]

Yeah. The playing louder thing was a lesson I learned the hard way too.

mark

 

[Bobby King]

I find it easier to amplify dark sounding strings with shorter sustain and still retain an acoustic quality. When you turn things up it exaggerates the sustain and if you have spirocores on they'll never stop ringing till you mute them with your hand. with darker strings you can still get that thump. I can also get some of that gut snap. If you add in some high end you can still get some clarity without sounding like Jaco.

I completely agree. As the volume increases, a quicker decay really helps.

 

[kurt]

Debating between playing with two fingers (horizontally) or one finger (vertically). I used to play a couple inches higher and get a mellow tone that i enjoyed but I like the snappy sound that I get from where my fingers are at now.

I use both techniques regularly. It doesn't matter if it's "right or wrong" what matters is the sound. In Dave Holland's masters classes he says that he uses the vertical technique for walking but for faster passages he switches to a more horizontal approach. He even said your thumb should be on the side of the fingerboard pointing up to get your arm weight into the string! I basically do the same. As I speed up my hand rotates to the more horizontal. I also find that you can get a little more articulation this way for soloing. Here is a good example of what I'm talking about. If it's good enough for Dave Holland it's good enough for me!

 

[Jeremy Allen]

In Dave Holland's masters classes he says that he uses the vertical technique for walking but for faster passages he switches to a more horizontal approach. He even said your thumb should be on the side of the fingerboard pointing up to get your arm weight into the string! I basically do the same. As I speed up my hand rotates to the more horizontal. I also find that you can get a little more articulation this way for soloing. Here is a good example of what I'm talking about. If it's good enough for Dave Holland it's good enough for me!

All this is true; I thought Kevin was talking about the basic technique for walking, not blowing. If he's trying to play fast passages like Dave Holland in those videos with one vertical finger, he's in for a surprise; of course he would want to use alternating fingers oriented in a more horizontal fashion, like the majority of us do. I'm urging him away from trying to walk with two horizontal fingers, either alternating or in unison.

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

All this is true; I thought Kevin was talking about the basic technique for walking, not blowing. If he's trying to play fast passages like Dave Holland in those videos with one vertical finger, he's in for a surprise; of course he would want to use alternating fingers oriented in a more horizontal fashion, like the majority of us do. I'm urging him away from trying to walk with two horizontal fingers, either alternating or in unison.

Yea. I use one for walking!

 

[Mark Perna]

Comping (any kind but especially walking): one finger whenever possible because the attack is so much better, two when I have to. Soloing: one finger whenever possible because the attack is so much better, two when I have to. Obviously fast passages are two finger and I also go horizontal.

mark