Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

[Jeremy Allen]

As for myself, I'm down to one bass with Spirocore Mittels, and I haven't been missing using other strings.

Hear, hear. But in my case, I do pretend that the mittels are guts, and it makes all the difference!

 

[Bobby King]

Hear, hear. But in my case, I do pretend that the mittels are guts, and it makes all the difference!

By jove, Jeremy, I do believe that you've hit upon the best solution of all!

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

Hear, hear. But in my case, I do pretend that the mittels are guts, and it makes all the difference!

my imagination isn't THAT powerful

 

[AndreasH]

I might put Evahs on the A and E in the winter. I already have them sitting in the string drawer. They won't be as nice but they won't be as jarring a change as Mittels on there.

mark

Mark,

Have you tried Velvet Garbos for E and A? I find them to be pretty close to gut with just a little bit more tension and sustain. They're not quite as thick as wound gut though but I like them very much with my plain gut D and G. They blend great and gives a balanced feel.

 

[Marc Piane]

my imagination isn't THAT powerful

Certainly it is not the same but really old Spiros (like 2 years +) start to get a really punchy yet dark kind of tone that the groove can sit on with just a hint of that Spiro zing that helps the sound cut.

Some would call it dead. I call it reaching adulthood.

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Yeah, it definitely helps for them to be old. I love old Spirocores! And then you crank up the action and use one finger for everything (including blowing), and there you are.

What I really meant was that I've played on all manner of guts, and I sometimes will use that experience to conceptualize how to play on other types of strings when I want that vibe.

 

[Mark Perna]

Mark,

Have you tried Velvet Garbos for E and A? I find them to be pretty close to gut with just a little bit more tension and sustain. They're not quite as thick as wound gut though but I like them very much with my plain gut D and G. They blend great and gives a balanced feel.

I've never tried Garbos. I'm going to use the Gamut E and A as long as possible. If I have problems next winter with humidity, I'll look into alternatives. It has definitely caught my attention that a lot of folks are using Garbos for the E and A with gut.

The only reason I would hesitate to go with anything other than all gut is the way the bass responds with four gut strings is different than when 2 have higher tension. I like the way the bass breaths and responds with all four gut strings. Of course, if the lower winter humidity makes the E and A crap out continually, I'd rather have something else. Since it is only the beginning of Spring and I have about 8 months before I have to worry about it, I'm not going to make any plans at this point.

mark

 

[Marcus Johnson]

The only reason I would hesitate to go with anything other than all gut is the way the bass responds with four gut strings is different than when 2 have higher tension. I like the way the bass breaths and responds with all four gut strings.

mark

Back when Ken Smith was still a member here, and I was thinking of going gut, he said the same thing to me. His feeling was that you couldn't really get the total picture until the whole bass was strung with guts. It seems that might be an option with these beautiful high end gut strings that DD and Gamut are making available.

The string pics on Gamut's site are really a thing of beauty. String pr0n!

 

[Nuno A.]

The only reason I would hesitate to go with anything other than all gut is the way the bass responds with four gut strings is different than when 2 have higher tension. I like the way the bass breaths and responds with all four gut strings. Of course, if the lower winter humidity makes the E and A crap out continually, I'd rather have something else. Since it is only the beginning of Spring and I have about 8 months before I have to worry about it, I'm not going to make any plans at this point.

mark

The Garbo dont have more tension than most wounded E + A guts, in fact they have less tension than most.(25 kgs per string) And the Garbo light have almost the same tension as plain guts.(23 kgs per string). i also dont like to mix plain guts G and D with heavy E and A because that will choke the sound of the G and D... but of course, each bass is different. my last string combination is Garbo E, Garbo light A , Garbo light D and Gamut plain G.. but i change strings every 2 weeks

Nuno

 

[Mark Perna]

Well then, if I ever need to swap out my Gamut E and A, Garbos will be my first stop.

mark

 

[AndreasH]

The Garbo dont have more tension than most wounded E + A guts, in fact they have less tension than most.(25 kgs per string) And the Garbo light have almost the same tension as plain guts.(23 kgs per string).

I didn't realize this. Maybe what I meant to say is that wound gut-core E and A are more flexible, not lesser in tension.

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

Well, it's been a while since I updated. So I'm going to post a couple developments. Had the privilege of playing on the Millennium Stage at the Kennedy Center, which was a huge learning experience for me. The Millennium Stage is literally a giant hall with two stages on each end. You can tell from walking in that it wasn't designed with acoustic performance (or any performance at all) in mind, but was created as an afterthought. The resulting sound is boomy and muddy. Plugging into the house system with a Full Circle was absolutely horrendous (we had 3 other bass players in the program, so a microphone was out of question). Amplifying Gut is A LOT harder than amplifying steel. There's almost no way to truly recreate the Gut tone through amplification. For the sake of fixing the boominess, Chip Jackson supplied me with a Barcus Berry pickup, which we plugged straight into the house. I was able to cut through the mix and as Wineaux stated, the sound still retained the gut quality to it.

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if you search through the archives (realplayer is required) you will be able to find the two nights i went direct in with the barcus berry. and on the third night (april 3) i went in direct in with the Full Circle. It was so boomy on stage that I played as light as i could, thinking it was as boomy in the audience. This resulted in the engineer turning me up so high you can hear almost every little thing that my finger does. interesting stuff and a great learning experience for me, seeing as I've never been in such a high level recording/performance environment.

I'm back from D.C. and back in New York trying to figure things out with the bass. Decided to start playing lower, so I moved the velcro tape I had on the bass down further on the fingerboard. Debating between playing with two fingers (horizontally) or one finger (vertically). I used to play a couple inches higher and get a mellow tone that i enjoyed but I like the snappy sound that I get from where my fingers are at now.

The gut strings have really settled in and the Garbos complement the gut in terms of feel and sound. They are also quite stable for pitch.

 

[Mark Perna]

My experience has been the exact opposite. Amplifying gut is the easiest thing I've ever done. I slapped the Stat-B on and it sounded great without any tinkering. I ran my AMT between the bridge legs and it not only sounded great but I could get a useable volume out of it all by itself. I think I spent less than 10 minutes total setting the bass up for amplification and I've been gigging with it ever since. I plug one or the other directly into a Focus 3 series into an AI cabinet. Best amplified sound I've ever gotten by which I mean it is really close to my bass but louder certainly the closest I've ever gotten. I mostly use the Stat-B. I really don't need to blend the mic with the Stat because it sounds so good by itself. I haven't used the mic much but I suspect the next time I record, I'll want to run a track with the mic.

With steel, I've had to work and work and work to get a good sound. Tweak this, tweak that. And then live with the inevitable compromise. Unlike with steel, I don't feel my amplified sound with gut is a compromise in ANY way.

Maybe you need to look into trying a different pickup or a different amp? I've never used the Full Circle but maybe it doesn't work as well with gut as with steel. I tried the Stat-B with Spiros and Dominants and didn't like it with either one. I LOVE it with gut. I think the rules that we lived by with steel strings don't necessarily apply with gut strings.

I'm having the time of my life with gut. I played a gig tonight. The sound is just RIGHTEOUS. The sound of a walking line is like a heartbeat. I've been working like a dog on playing fast eighth notes and I've gotten it down. Play at the end of the fingerboard, use alternating two fingers playing down and into the fingerboard (make the string snap a bit), keep the left hand fingers somewhat straight and press the strings down with the pads of the fingers not the tips. I'm well and truly converted to gut. I can't forsee ever going back to steel for jazz.

mark

 

[Kevin Hsieh]

My experience has been the exact opposite. Amplifying gut is the easiest thing I've ever done...

With steel, I've had to work and work and work to get a good sound. Tweak this, tweak that. And then live with the inevitable compromise. Unlike with steel, I don't feel my amplified sound with gut is a compromise in ANY way.

Maybe you need to look into trying a different pickup or a different amp? I've never used the Full Circle but maybe it doesn't work as well with gut as with steel. I tried the Stat-B with Spiros and Dominants and didn't like it with either one. I LOVE it with gut. I think the rules that we lived by with steel strings don't necessarily apply with gut strings.

In regular situations, I haven't had any trouble at all. But in a boomy LOOOONG hall, it is next to impossible to tame. I've played in small spaces plugging in and going flat into a Hartke 12 Hartke 15 and a GKMB150 and have gotten a great sound. In odd situations though, it's hard to get a handle on how exactly to get the tone you hear.

just my experience.

I don't see myself going to steel in the future either

 

[Jake deVilliers]

Oh the zeal of the newly converted. I'm expecting to see Kevin and Mark come up the front walk any day now, wearing cheap suits and unfashionable glasses.

They'll knock on the door and ask, "Have you taken gut into your heart?"

 

[wineaux]

Oh the zeal of the newly converted. I'm expecting to see Kevin and Mark come up the front walk any day now, wearing cheap suits and unfashionable glasses.

They'll knock on the door and ask, "Have you taken gut into your heart?"

Coffee all over keyboard!

 

[Jeremy Allen]

Debating between playing with two fingers (horizontally) or one finger (vertically).

That debate should be over before it starts, and the answer is the latter option. You know that, Kevin! Although my own preference with gut is more like the Ron Carter thing, which is two fingers horizontally (with only the index finger making contact with the string). Something about bringing that middle finger into the mix mellows and relaxes the vibe in comparison with the one finger Ray Brown cannon.

I also think that gut is amazingly easy to amplify, but in a really boomy room like you describe there's not much to be done with any type of string but to slap an Underwood on there and let it be.

 

[Marc Piane]

Oh the zeal of the newly converted. I'm expecting to see Kevin and Mark come up the front walk any day now, wearing cheap suits and unfashionable glasses.

They'll knock on the door and ask, "Have you taken gut into your heart?"

Nice.

 

[Uncletoad]

I gotta stop reading this thread.

Leave my guts in the drawer.

 

[Jeremy Allen]

I'm puttin mine on for a Mingus tribute concert in a couple of weeks. Maybe that'll help my ulnar neuritis a little bit (obtained from playing spiros on a 44" scale bass).