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Double Bass Gut Strings: Are They Worth It To Try? (part I)

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...This ended up being a problem because with all the new players, it ended up being a soloing contest at times and I'd try to compete with the steel string players with their low action and clearer strings. My eighth notes ended up getting lost and I just ended up making a fool of myself...

Soloing is not about eighth notes...it's not even about notes at all! If you play one beautiful idea, the people who are really listening will notice and respond (besides you'll never touch those who can't/don't listen.)
Find your voice beyond the notes and you'll always play music instead of math.
-J
Keep kickin' it Kevin!
 
Progress report.

Playing fast eighths with gut is REALLY hard but it can be done. My respect for Scott Lafaro which was already enormous is now off the charts. I've been working on his Milestones' solo off of the Vanguard recordings. I'm not particularly interested in getting the solo down as a solo but I want to capture (i.e. swipe) some of his attributes. Particularly, the way he attacked the strings with his right hand. Incredibly clean, fast with a solid "thunk". He plays a lot of scalar lines and in between interjects triplet-based ostinatos which work well with the percussive quality of gut. I'm still looking for things that gut does well that aren't as good with steel.

To that end, I've been practicing getting that attack down by running scale fragments and chromatic scale fragments up and down the neck working primarily on the right hand. Picking down at the end of the fingerboard is absolutely essential. The sound is tighter and the string has less side to side movement. This is true with steel too but with gut the difference is much more remarkable. Using the very ends of your fingertips on both hands also makes a big difference. Again, you get a tighter more focussed sound. It also seems as if with less skin on the string, the string doesn't bog down as much. You can get a more articulate, quicker attack without losing the fat gut sound.

Getting to play fast and clean on gut is like sprinting in snow (or soft sand for those of you in Hawaii). I've been running these exercises so much both of my hands feel like I've been in a boxing match.

I think the ability to play fast with gut will come down to not one big breakthrough but a whole bunch of small incremental technical ones. Playing by the end of the fingerboard, using the fingertips only on both hands. Getting the coordination down so I don't bog down in the middle of a run. Getting that SOUND of the attack in my head and making it happen on the bass.

That's where I'm at now. Wednesday night's gig went reasonably well and made me realize what I needed to work on. I spent the last two days pounding it over and over. We'll see on Saturday if all of the work pays off. How do you post sound clips? If someone tells me how, I'll post some.

Lastly, the Stat-B is a wonder with gut. I started the night with the Stat and the AMT and I ended up rolling the AMT off before the end of the first set because I didn't need it. The Stat sounded great on it's own. I've played 3 gigs so far in 3 very different rooms and the quality of the sound seems to be completely independent of the room which is something I've NEVER experienced with steel. No matter where I am, I just plug in and it sounds the same. I had the amp right up against the wall but I didn't get the dreaded bass proximity effect. It just sounded natural. I had the amp in the middle of the room, it sounded just like it did against the wall--like my bass but louder.

mark
 
How do you post sound clips? If someone tells me how, I'll post some.

You can host soundfiles on your own servers or on hosting sites like putfile. I have server access from my school so I use that most of the time.
Lastly, the Stat-B is a wonder with gut. I started the night with the Stat and the AMT and I ended up rolling the AMT off before the end of the first set because I didn't need it. The Stat sounded great on it's own.
mark
Ugh my GAS is rising. I'd really like to hear how the Stat B sounds with my bass. Too bad they are so expensive. On the other hand, the Gut strings work beautifully in conjunction with the Full Circle --> GK MB150. I have no complaints at the moment. But I AM curious about the Stat B

I keep getting compliments about my setup from other bass players. loving it. :hyper:
 
I’ve been digging this thread and can't completely be sure if it is the cause but I have ended up buying a set of used mismatch Gut's from other TB'ers.

This is my first time changing strings since I bought this bass last April. All this time I have played the beat Spiro's and one Dom(D) which came on it. I have liked the sound but just can't help but be intrigued by having a run. Buying used stings I don't feel much remorse. Before putting the guts on I knew that I prolly want to (and will) end up with Spiro Mittles and Stark mixed (or one or the other).

Picked them up from the Post Office today and put them on and was shocked . Just plain wild after having played spiros for a year. I dig the d and g which are wrapped gut and sound much more raw. Thumpy, scratchy, a much different feel and THICK. Fun and novel to play on. I hope I can relish the chance to be pushed to play musically. And some motivation also to bust ass on the technical, two hand coordination stuff that gut seems to make so unique.

The E and A Eudoxia's (sp?) are um :hmm:. They sound a bit better after having tuned them up a full step like...5 times but still...I can't see these replacing Spiros for me pizz or arco. And they aren’t pure gut so...(I guess I don't know what that means)

So here goes for my gut fun! We'll see if I can continue to please my teacher with the bow:hmm:
 
This is my first time changing strings since I bought this bass last April. All this time I have played the beat Spiro's and one Dom(D) which came on it. I have liked the sound but just can't help but be intrigued by having a run. Buying used stings I don't feel much remorse. Before putting the guts on I knew that I prolly want to (and will) end up with Spiro Mittles and Stark mixed (or one or the other).

Bryon, you're using wrapped gut on top? How do you like it? Have you experimented with plain gut? I believe that Calivox and I are both using Plain Gut on top and a synthetic/steel string on the bottom.

Give it a week or so to settle in before you make any final judgements. Keep us updated! This thread is great!
 
Bryon, you're using wrapped gut on top? How do you like it? Have you experimented with plain gut? I believe that Calivox and I are both using Plain Gut on top and a synthetic/steel string on the bottom.

Give it a week or so to settle in before you make any final judgements. Keep us updated! This thread is great!

I'm using Gamut wrapped gut on the A and E and Gamut plain gut on the D and G so I'm all gut now. Tried steel on the bottom but didn't like it. The tension of the whole bass was unpleasantly different with the mixed set and I didn't like the timbre change going from the gut D to the steel A.

And Kevin is right, you have to give it time to settle. Your bass has to adjust to dramatically less tension and the strings will get more focused as they stretch out, particularly the D.

mark
 
And Kevin is right, you have to give it time to settle. Your bass has to adjust to dramatically less tension and the strings will get more focused as they stretch out, particularly the D.

mark

I'm using a full set of innovation rockabillys (black nylon) and this is the exact same thing that happened when I put them on, the tension is almost as light as gut. I think the E and A would be a great match for a plain gut D and G. You can get some of that gut snap with them. I think the feel and timbre of the A crossing to a gut D would be much closer than any metal wrapped string. The rockabilly G still gets a bit nasal when you climb up the neck so I've been thinking about putting on a plain gut G and maybe a D. The rockabilly E and A are much more focused than plain gut with decent but not exaggerated sustain. And they're really not that bad under the bow once you get used to them.

Do you get a lot more string buzz with plain guts like you do with low tension steels?
 
Bryon, you're using wrapped gut on top? How do you like it? Have you experimented with plain gut? I believe that Calivox and I are both using Plain Gut on top and a synthetic/steel string on the bottom.

Give it a week or so to settle in before you make any final judgements. Keep us updated! This thread is great!


Kev,



I have an unknown wrapped Gut G and a Garbo D (which feels pretty simmilar to the random wrapped G). I like the way these strings sound. The bow on the G is just crazey compared with Sprios G.

THe E and A Eudox's got better but I dont have too much of an opinion on them yet. Kinda Blah...Nice big ocilations anyway.

I was rehersing and then busking today and really got worked on the right hand. For the first hour or two the feel was great. The two handed swing feel while walking is made easier by the loosenes of the guts and in the better moments it was feeling great.

The additional chops needed with gut caught up with me and I found my Intonation and time getting loose as I went on.


Eventually I was pulling out the bow to solo :eek: because my right hand (arm I shoud say) was so worked. For a moment I would hear a PC glimmar but then shank a note and go back to scrambling to play the most consenent mode.

Progress report.

Playing fast eighths with gut is REALLY hard but it can be done. My respect for Scott Lafaro which was already enormous is now off the charts.

All that kept flashing into my head was the quote about Scott "waking up and just doing pushups and getting after the bass all day" !!

more pushups? :D

Overall these strings are going to give me a little whip in the ass to get my pizz chps and pizz intonation togehter. It feels like a stepping stone between Arco and normal pizz because of the increased difficulty...or something.

Lookin forward to hearing how its going for you guys.
 
Progress report.

Playing fast eighths with gut is REALLY hard but it can be done. My respect for Scott Lafaro which was already enormous is now off the charts. I've been working on his Milestones' solo off of the Vanguard recordings. I'm not particularly interested in getting the solo down as a solo but I want to capture (i.e. swipe) some of his attributes. Particularly, the way he attacked the strings with his right hand. Incredibly clean, fast with a solid "thunk". He plays a lot of scalar lines and in between interjects triplet-based ostinatos which work well with the percussive quality of gut. I'm still looking for things that gut does well that aren't as good with steel.

To that end, I've been practicing getting that attack down by running scale fragments and chromatic scale fragments up and down the neck working primarily on the right hand. Picking down at the end of the fingerboard is absolutely essential. The sound is tighter and the string has less side to side movement. This is true with steel too but with gut the difference is much more remarkable. Using the very ends of your fingertips on both hands also makes a big difference. Again, you get a tighter more focussed sound. It also seems as if with less skin on the string, the string doesn't bog down as much. You can get a more articulate, quicker attack without losing the fat gut sound.

Getting to play fast and clean on gut is like sprinting in snow (or soft sand for those of you in Hawaii). I've been running these exercises so much both of my hands feel like I've been in a boxing match.

I think the ability to play fast with gut will come down to not one big breakthrough but a whole bunch of small incremental technical ones. Playing by the end of the fingerboard, using the fingertips only on both hands. Getting the coordination down so I don't bog down in the middle of a run. Getting that SOUND of the attack in my head and making it happen on the bass.

That's where I'm at now. Wednesday night's gig went reasonably well and made me realize what I needed to work on. I spent the last two days pounding it over and over. We'll see on Saturday if all of the work pays off. How do you post sound clips? If someone tells me how, I'll post some.

Lastly, the Stat-B is a wonder with gut. I started the night with the Stat and the AMT and I ended up rolling the AMT off before the end of the first set because I didn't need it. The Stat sounded great on it's own. I've played 3 gigs so far in 3 very different rooms and the quality of the sound seems to be completely independent of the room which is something I've NEVER experienced with steel. No matter where I am, I just plug in and it sounds the same. I had the amp right up against the wall but I didn't get the dreaded bass proximity effect. It just sounded natural. I had the amp in the middle of the room, it sounded just like it did against the wall--like my bass but louder.

mark

Interesting Mark. I have always liked my Dyn B better than the Stat, but after I got my Markbass combo, your post made me curious to see how the Stat would do.

I haven't used it in probably 4 years, and the cable was dead, but I found an RCA -> 1/4" adapter and tried it today when I was making some sound samples for a thread in the amps and pickups forum.

When playing, I assumed the Dyn was a lot more natural. The Stat seemed bass heavy on the low strings and a bit bright on the G string, but when I listened back to the recordings of acoustic vs. Stat vs. Dyn B the Stat fared very well.
 
When playing, I assumed the Dyn was a lot more natural. The Stat seemed bass heavy on the low strings and a bit bright on the G string, but when I listened back to the recordings of acoustic vs. Stat vs. Dyn B the Stat fared very well.

I think a lot of it is due to the bass and how well the Stat is fitted to the bass. I've a had a bunch of basses and each one responds to pickups differently. I've tried the Stat on 3 basses with steel strings and, while it never sounded bad, it wasn't what I needed in a pickup. At least by itself. With gut and on this bass, it sounds amazing. Gut is a different animal, though. I ran my AMT up through the bridge legs and I can use it without a pickup and get a seriously useable volume and it also sounds great. I could never do that with steel. It really is a paradigm shift for me. I usually have to tweak and tweak and tweak to get a pickup to work. With this, it was plug an play. I think I spent less than 5 minutes total on the whole pickup/microphone system and I've been gigging with it ever since without any modification. AND it is the best sound I've ever gotten out of an amp.

I'm so into gut now, I'm seriously thinking about putting gut on my other bass too and on my Kolstein Travel bass. Assuming I go ahead with it, it'll be interesting to see how the pickups interact with those basses and if they will be as easy to amplify as the '74 was.

mark
 
I think a lot of it is due to the bass and how well the Stat is fitted to the bass. I've a had a bunch of basses and each one responds to pickups differently. I've tried the Stat on 3 basses with steel strings and, while it never sounded bad, it wasn't what I needed in a pickup. At least by itself. With gut and on this bass, it sounds amazing. Gut is a different animal, though. I ran my AMT up through the bridge legs and I can use it without a pickup and get a seriously useable volume and it also sounds great. I could never do that with steel. It really is a paradigm shift for me. I usually have to tweak and tweak and tweak to get a pickup to work. With this, it was plug an play. I think I spent less than 5 minutes total on the whole pickup/microphone system and I've been gigging with it ever since without any modification. AND it is the best sound I've ever gotten out of an amp.

I'm so into gut now, I'm seriously thinking about putting gut on my other bass too and on my Kolstein Travel bass. Assuming I go ahead with it, it'll be interesting to see how the pickups interact with those basses and if they will be as easy to amplify as the '74 was.

mark

Cool. Yeah, very funny to me that I just slapped the thing on and it sounded that good. It is shaped for my old Juzek bridge, not the egg shaped wings of my Despau bridge.

However, I'm not really using gut right now, other that the Oliv G. The rest are all EP's.

I do still get cravings for my old Gamuts though.
 
I'd love to see more clips posted regularly at TB. One picture (clip) is worth a million words.


Your right Chris. Ask and you shall....

Here is a link to an afterwork snip of my practice session just so you can hear the strings. Forgive the sloppy playing please. The mic came built into the computer so :hmm:

Link Removed

In the music player you will see which track is for TalkBass!

Slapping the Olive G on with some other mismatch hybrid guts gives the bass a fairly endearing sound under the bow. Definatley alot better (though less unique) than the scratchy yellow wrapped gut I had on.
 
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