Have we all been tricked!?

[dbsfgyd1]

Oh boy, here we go again.

As in every other thread, there are a ton of factors that contribute to tone. You take Marcus Miller and give him Flea's favorite brand of strings do you think he's going to suddenly sound like anyone but Marcus Miller? Of course not!

High end instruments are expensive because they play better and feel more comfortable, and also often have features that are not available on off-the-shelf models. Tone is subjective, and most of us who play high-end instruments will of course argue that our boutique axes sound better than something off the shelf at guitar center, but it's relative so there's no way to prove who is "right."

You sound best when you're comfortable. Playing "better" strings that don't feel good under your hands is not going to improve your sound no matter how many YouTube videos tell you they're the bees knees.

While we have so many threads like this, so few are dedicated to what happens on the other end of the instrument cable. What you use to develop that electronic signal coming into your amp has way more to do with your tone than the instrumentation itself.

 

[Root 5]

While we have so many threads like this, so few are dedicated to what happens on the other end of the instrument cable. What you use to develop that electronic signal coming into your amp has way more to do with your tone than the instrumentation itself.

Agreed. The amplifier and effects have much much more to do with 'great tone' than the instrument. But that isn't what we're sold by the industry.

 

[Deleted member 394181]

I just know that now if someone is looking to buy an FSO. Better take the neck off and look for a Turtle.

 

[Passinwind]

I know things like playability can be argued but with cnc and a quality setup do they play that big of a difference?

Yes, sometimes a huge difference in play feel IMO and IME. But only you can answer that for yourself, and only by playing a large enough sample size to discern a solid trend, discounting outliers. IMO an occasional great $100 instrument doesn't say anything about true market value for a high dollar builder with a 95% hit rate.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

He has a guitar amp video that I kinda liked:

 

[dbflats]

I've never had a bass that limited what I could play on it beyond the basic physical realities inherent in any instrument.

I've never had a bass which made a sound when plucked that was unsuitable for music.

Not counting a few oddballs, the basses referenced above, all of which got played a lot were:

Vantage-model unrecalled. I actually had two of these. Decent Japanese build, one P pup, decent to great sound. Early 1980s.

G&L L-5500. This was my move to 5-string. A big beast with active EMGs. Most expensive bass guitar I've ever owned, listing at the time for $1500. I paid a grand. Bass was great. Early 1990s.

2 identical Spirit XZ-25s. $249 a copy from MusicYo back in 04. These are all I play anymore. Punch WAY above their weight for me. Flatwound-strung, run through just a couple outboard units, the sound is deep and powerful, fantastic for recording or live. Being headless helps on crowded stages.

It's true I've never owned a Fodera or other truly high-end bass, but as things sit, there's also simply no reason to think I need one.

Other mileages will most certainly vary. Y'all have fun now.

 

[sonic boogaloo]

I've come away from all of these conversations with these take aways:
-pickups matter a lot
-strings matter a lot
-the feel of the instrument matters a lot

agree 100% with this.

i have a CIJ fender jazz which i intended to sell, but when i took it out of storage it felt so good that i changed my mind and decided to treat it to some upgrades.

lollar pickups and thomastik flats plus a few aesthetic tweaks have taken it to the next level and now i'm glad i kept it.

 

[carsonchilders]

agree 100% with this.

i have a CIJ fender jazz which i intended to sell, but when i took it out of storage it felt so good that i changed my mind and decided to treat it to some upgrades.

lollar pickups and thomastik flats plus a few aesthetic tweaks have taken it to the next level and now i'm glad i kept it.

This line of thinking has also lead me to prioritize playing instruments as much as possible rather than ordering online. Even if that means I travel a few hours to sit down with something.

 

[Daniel B5]

People talk about the player making all the difference (e.g. Marcus Miller will sound like himself no matter what instrument you give him) and I think most people have assumed that it's the person's style and skill.

But what about their body composition? If wood affects tone by absorbing and dampening vibrations, then surely putting that wood against a beer belly vs a taut six-pack, and plucking strings with arms that have iron cables of muscle rather than flabby pool noodles, makes a huge difference.

Time to hit the bench press / treadmill / high protein low carb meals, friends!

(Tongue: driven firmly into cheek. I do need to shape up a bit, but for health and overall qualify of life reasons.)

 

[JamesGrant]

What do you mean by "deps"? Subs?

Yes, sorry. In U.K. 'dep' is an abbreviation of 'deputise (verb)'
Oxford English Dictionary -
'Deputise (or deputize) means
to act as a temporary substitute for someone, taking over their duties, or to appoint someone to act in such a capacity.'



If you were to say 'I need to find a sub' people would think 'foot-long sandwich (possibly with meatballs), or 'submarine'.

 

[BassicJazzy]

People talk about the player making all the difference (e.g. Marcus Miller will sound like himself no matter what instrument you give him) and I think most people have assumed that it's the person's style and skill.

But what about their body composition? If wood affects tone by absorbing and dampening vibrations, then surely putting that wood against a beer belly vs a taut six-pack, and plucking strings with arms that have iron cables of muscle rather than flabby pool noodles, makes a huge difference.

Time to hit the bench press / treadmill / high protein low carb meals, friends!

(Tongue: driven firmly into cheek. I do need to shape up a bit, but for health and overall qualify of life reasons.)

No wonder the Hulkster didn't go further in his early career as a professional bassist! You need at least 40% body fat or you lack proper bass tone!

 

[dbflats]

Oh oh, I'll be 70 in a month and my beer, I mean bass belly, hasn't even sprouted yet. What, now I need a prosthesis?

 

[rockear]

People talk about the player making all the difference (e.g. Marcus Miller will sound like himself no matter what instrument you give him) and I think most people have assumed that it's the person's style and skill.

But what about their body composition? If wood affects tone by absorbing and dampening vibrations, then surely putting that wood against a beer belly vs a taut six-pack, and plucking strings with arms that have iron cables of muscle rather than flabby pool noodles, makes a huge difference.

Time to hit the bench press / treadmill / high protein low carb meals, friends!

(Tongue: driven firmly into cheek. I do need to shape up a bit, but for health and overall qualify of life reasons.)

LOL but also I think there is something to this. (Not the rock hard abs thing, but...) Some people are more sensitive to minor differences than others. A lot of very good players never learn to do a setup. Don't really think about action or intonation. Just play whatever is in front of them. Just buy whatever strings.

I've discovered that fret size is kind of important to me, as is string tension, but I don't really care about instrument weight or neck shape. I slightly prefer rosewood fretboards to maple, but I'm not totally sure why. I imagine there are some people that can feel elements of an instrument's construction like resonance of different woods or neck through vs bolt on or a high mass bridge or stringing through the body that I couldn't really care less about.

 

[Pep]

I can obviously acknowledge that some controls matter (type of strings flats vs round, pickup brand and type, etc) but things as nuanced as paint type, body wood, etc. That people go crazy about aren't really factors at all.

Actually body wood is a key factor in resonance, sustain, balance, weight, etc.

 

[GIBrat51]

All you need is a Danelectro bass to realize all the "tone" formulas go out the window.

^^THIS^^ times about a thousand...
Yeah, I can definitely vouch for this - 'cause I own 3 Danelectro basses; 2 '99 DC59 Pros, and a '15 Longhorn. Plus, I've noodled around on several different Danos - including a few guitars. IMO, Danos are the ultimate "string chameleons". If I took the Fender 9050L flats off the DC59 that wears them, and put a set of (shudder) rounds on it? You'd swear it was a completely different bass. As it is, the one with the Fenders sounds very, very different from the one that wears La Bella 760FX's... I try different strings on a new-to-me bass all the time, until I find some that I think sound good on that bass, and for what I want to use it for. And, I have 27 other basses besides the Danos. And, while they all respond to string changes, None of them respond like my Danos do...

 

[andare]

Yes, sorry. In U.K. 'dep' is an abbreviation of 'deputise (verb)'
Oxford English Dictionary -
'Deputise (or deputize) means
to act as a temporary substitute for someone, taking over their duties, or to appoint someone to act in such a capacity.'



If you were to say 'I need to find a sub' people would think 'foot-long sandwich (possibly with meatballs), or 'submarine'.

I suspected it was UK English. Sub is more American I guess.

BTW Both the sandwich and the underwater vessel would be worthy replacements for me. My band members would definitely appreciate them haha

 

[ra0ulduke]

I've come away from all of these conversations with these take aways:
-pickups matter a lot
-strings matter a lot
-the feel of the instrument matters a lot

I don't really have to care about tone woods, etc. I have to pick up an instrument and decide if this feels better/worse/different than the ones I already have. Just like how I reach for a thunderbird or chunky p bass or a hofner for the way it makes me play and approach the song.

I don't care what the instrument is made out of. I'll leave that to the maker to decide what they value.

I agree with that but would add that pickups are less important for the tone than manufacturers would have you believe.

 

[andare]

I agree with that but would add that pickups are less important for the tone than manufacturers would have you believe.

I played the same songs on all my guitars yesterday: Strat, Jazzmaster, P90, gold foils. Pickups matter a lot but it's the type and placement, mostly.

 

[ra0ulduke]

I played the same songs on all my guitars yesterday: Strat, Jazzmaster, P90, gold foils. Pickups matter a lot but it's the type and placement, mostly.

Aside from the fact that I'm referring to bass: Please read carefully what I wrote. Thank you!

 

[woodyng2]

I put a Lollar P into a ultra cheap ($150) Yamaha fretless, and it made an unbelievable difference.