Having trouble getting a good drive tone ampless

[tedsalt]

Sorry, I haven't read all of these suggestions, but I would recommend putting a clean boost in front of your VMT. TC Electronic Spark or Mini Spark would probably work great. I put a HBE Baja Mos in front of mine, and as I bring up the boost, I get more "drive" out of the VMT.

 

[jacoby75]

Sorry, I haven't read all of these suggestions, but I would recommend putting a clean boost in front of your VMT. TC Electronic Spark or Mini Spark would probably work great. I put a HBE Baja Mos in front of mine, and as I bring up the boost, I get more "drive" out of the VMT.

See? I know people are getting good tones with just the VT Bass DI, but I'm not even getting a good drive out of that when I use it by itself. When I get the drive above 9:00 (adjusting the master volume down accordingly so that it stays at unity gain when disengaged) it gets all "farty," not "drivey." Which leads me to believe it's something else that I'm doing wrong. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's time to replace the 18yr old USB interface with maybe an actual headphone amp so I can hear what it's actually supposed to sound like.

 

[Jrussblues]

You are running at least 3 preamps in that chain, all of which have distortion and eq right?

 

[jacoby75]

Uh . . . me no like math. I has the dumbs.

1) Vt Bass DI
2) Darkglass VMT, if we’re counting that as a preamp?
3) MXR M80 (which I don't use at the same time as the VMT, but I would use with the VT bass because the cab sim of the VT tames the distortion of the M80)

 

[tedsalt]

Uh . . . me no like math. I has the dumbs.

1) Vt Bass DI
2) Darkglass VMT?
3) MXR M80 (which I don't use at the same time as the VMT, but I would use with the VT bass because the cab sim of the VT tames the distortion of the M80)

You might try taking the VMT and the M80 out, since you probably use the DI on the VT, and just make adjustments with it until you find something you like?

When you get the OCSD, replace the VT DI with that, and put a boost in front of the VMT. You may like it. That's pretty much what I run. Of course, I like clean, with varying amounts of drive added when needed.

 

[jacoby75]

I do use the DI on the VTDI. The M80 is overkill for a distortion pedal, as it's a preamp/direct box. But it's honestly one of the best distortions I've found that suits my tastes well because you can dial in the blend so there's just a bit of hair, it has a gate, and it has the three band EQ. I used to use it as an actual preamp. Now it's just a dirt box.

FWIW, I primarily play ampless in church, mostly clean with a little dirt at times, and a little MORE dirt at times. That may be a good way to go boosting the VMT. Thanks.

 

[brianrost]

Maybe you are just asking for more dirt than the gear can provide. Were you using distortion when you did use amps? What amps were you using then?

 

[jacoby75]

Maybe you are just asking for more dirt than the gear can provide. Were you using distortion when you did use amps? What amps were you using then?

Maybe. I’ve played for 30+ years but never used dirt with an amp. This is a relatively recent development. The search has been for how to get a good drive tone direct without an amp. At least that’s the quest for NOW. It might be a different story or different problem if I was using an amp. I will say that I have tried dirt with my GK practice amp (solid state) and it sounds pretty awful. But that’s a different matter altogether.

 

[ObsessiveArcher]

I would check if you have too much going on in your signal. Try it without the compressor. They can add huge amounts of gain unintentionally. Then, try it without the Darkglass VMT.
I had a compressor and a Darkglass VMT in my chain. When both were on I got horrible noise issues. I ended up dumping them both .

 

[jacoby75]

I would check if you have too much going on in your signal. Try it without the compressor. They can add huge amounts of gain unintentionally. Then, try it without the Darkglass VMT.
I had a compressor and a Darkglass VMT in my chain. When both were on I got horrible noise issues. I ended up dumping them both .

The Spectracomp definitely adds gain. But it’s a good point. Maybe what I’m trying to achieve in headphones without an amp is just not physically possible. It’s an idea. Thanks.

 

[MDBass]

The Spectracomp definitely adds gain. But it’s a good point. Maybe what I’m trying to achieve in headphones without an amp is just not physically possible. It’s an idea. Thanks.

I'm guessing the interface is the issue, as you pretty clearly have some clipping going on and the none of the pedals should be doing that, especially at anything like the low drive levels you're describing.

Daisy chaining multiple drive pedals is also not an issue: this was done with 5 chained drive pedals and a 1 compressor, no farts to be found

 

[jacoby75]

I'm guessing the interface is the issue, as you pretty clearly have some clipping going on and the none of the pedals should be doing that, especially at anything like the low drive levels you're describing.

Daisy chaining multiple drive pedals is also not an issue: this was done with 5 chained drive pedals and a 1 compressor, no farts to be found

Nice. Thanks for the input. No pun intended. How are you recording that? Do you have a particular interface of choice?

 

[jacoby75]

Although I may not need or want a new interface since I really have no need for it these days. I couldn’t tell you the last time I recorded something into the computer. Maybe 17yrs ago. And I certainly have no skills worthy of recording to post on YouTube or here for any reason. I may just need a headphone amp. All I need is something to let me hear how my rig will sound when I plug it in at the venue, since I’m not using an amp as a guide. But then I’d have to worry about a headphone amp farting out.

Hopefully the OCSD will solve both of these problems, if I can just hold out for it to get here.

 

[Wasnex]

Hey guys,

I have struggled for months . . . probably a couple of years now . . . trying to get a good tone in my ampless pedalboard setup when it comes to using drive pedals to give it just a little grit. I have tried I don't know how many different drive pedals and preamps/speaker sims (including the Tech 21 stuff, Aguilar Tone Hammer, Digitech CabDryVR, ADA GCS-2, and Palmer PDI-09, maybe more) in a search for something that doesn't sound like bee farts, but it's been challenging. I usually can only get the "drive" or "gain" knobs up on any dirt pedal to about 9:00, of course adjusting the volume level accordingly, no mater what the pedal, before it sounds like electronic mush. Like overdriving a solid-state amp. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Perhaps you can shed some light on the struggle.

If you want "just a little grit," 9 o'clock is where it's at on many pedals. Use your ears not your eyes.

Perhaps you need parallel signal paths and the ability to separately EQ, compress, and blend clean and dirty signals. Try running an EQ before your OD pedals so you can pick which frequencies overload. A "little grit" suggests upper mids to me. Distortion results in compression, so you may need to use a bit of compression on the clean signal to help it blend with the distorted signal. If you want higher gain, try stacking multiple pedals setup for low gain instead of one pedal setup for high gain. Running different ODs in parallel can also produce interesting results.

 

[Turn Em Loose]

@jacoby75, something I didn't see mentioned is, IMO, that there's a thin line between "drive", which is pleasant, and "drive" which sounds like sh*t on a stick. The trick is to get the pleasant drive going.

Not trying to be a smarta**, but maybe you don't like too much "drive"? Reason I say this is I, for one, don't like to much drive/OD/distortion. Just a thought.

 

[MDBass]

Nice. Thanks for the input. No pun intended. How are you recording that? Do you have a particular interface of choice?

I run a UAD Apollo system, since I mix and engineer as a job, but even one of the simple Focusrite interfaces will serve you just fine.

Bands like Periphery do all their production through simple systems like that

 

[MDBass]

Although I may not need or want a new interface since I really have no need for it these days. I couldn’t tell you the last time I recorded something into the computer. Maybe 17yrs ago. And I certainly have no skills worthy of recording to post on YouTube or here for any reason. I may just need a headphone amp. All I need is something to let me hear how my rig will sound when I plug it in at the venue, since I’m not using an amp as a guide. But then I’d have to worry about a headphone amp farting out.

Hopefully the OCSD will solve both of these problems, if I can just hold out for it to get here.

If you're only using your interface as a headphone amp, waiting until the OCSD arrives would be prudent.

 

[jacoby75]

@jacoby75, something I didn't see mentioned is, IMO, that there's a thin line between "drive", which is pleasant, and "drive" which sounds like sh*t on a stick. The trick is to get the pleasant drive going.

Not trying to be a smarta**, but maybe you don't like too much "drive"? Reason I say this is I, for one, don't like to much drive/OD/distortion. Just a thought.

Perhaps. Maybe it’s SUPPOSED to sound like that and there’s a reason I don’t like it. But it seems to go from “nice” to “poo-stick” really, really quickly, with little room for variation in between. Food for thought, though. But I have heard really “good” sounding heavier distortion pedals online, but I can’t get a heavier distortion sound out of anything I have before it turns to fart. Seems to me something is amiss. But as I’ve noted before, most of what I listen to online is not recorded direct. What IS recorded direct . . . And through an OCSD . . . sounds pretty darn good. I’m hoping to have more similar results to what I’m hearing online once I actually get my OCSD.

 

[jacoby75]

If you're only using your interface as a headphone amp, waiting until the OCSD arrives would be prudent.

Prudence is the virtue my bank account prefers.

 

[jacoby75]

If you want "just a little grit," 9 o'clock is where it's at on many pedals. Use your ears not your eyes.

Perhaps you need parallel signal paths and the ability to separately EQ, compress, and blend clean and dirty signals. Try running an EQ before your OD pedals so you can pick which frequencies overload. A "little grit" suggests upper mids to me. Distortion results in compression, so you may need to use a bit of compression on the clean signal to help it blend with the distorted signal. If you want higher gain, try stacking multiple pedals setup for low gain instead of one pedal setup for high gain. Running different ODs in parallel can also produce interesting results.

My head just exploded.