headphone practice solution

[singlemalt]

How bout Rube Goldberg? Not ghetto, Goldberg!

We'll hit eBay for that blast from the past: the Bone Phone! Transmit directly into collar bone. They gotta be cheap enough to meet design parameter.

$50 bucks for comfortable, light, good sounding headphones is do-able. They last forever.

 

[PhiDeck]

Various suggestions to use a Y-cable to combine two sources into one load are wrong.

Y-cables or Y-adapters should only be used for one source to drive two loads, never the opposite.

 

[scottfeldstein]

Various suggestions to use a Y-cable to combine two sources into one load are wrong.

Y-cables or Y-adapters should only be used for one source to drive two loads, never the opposite.

Boom. That didn't take long. Thanks.

 

[Rockin Mike]

Various suggestions to use a Y-cable to combine two sources into one load are wrong.

Y-cables or Y-adapters should only be used for one source to drive two loads, never the opposite.

Why?

Don't just say "that's wrong", educate us.

 

[scottfeldstein]

I'm not an engineer or an electrician, but I think it's just like I told you: You'd not only be hooking both sources up to the same speakers, you'd be hooking them up to each other as well. Both my SansAmp and my iPod have amplifiers in them. Those amplifiers aren't meant to be on the receiving end of another amplifiers watts. Doing so could damage one or both of them.

This explanation:

Well, remember, the signal will be coming OUT of the iPod into the headphones. There shouldn't be any signal (i.e. electrical energy) ENTERING the iPod by using this adapter.

just didn't make any sense to me. A wire is a wire is a wire. They don't have "one way" signs on them.

I ditched out of this thread because things were getting nasty, but I'm back. Hoping things are more chill now.

 

[mwbassace]

I explained how I use a Y cable and have done it that way for a while and my equipment works just fine, never had an issue. While I will admit it's not the best way you can't say it won't work, my situation is proof it will. Actually the post above about using a single male;double female Y into an amp then using the amp's headphone jack is a better way, as far as the Y cord way goes. P.S. I am a journeyman electrician with an electronics background.

 

[Rob22315]

I'm not an engineer or an electrician, but I think it's just like I told you: You'd not only be hooking both sources up to the same speakers, you'd be hooking them up to each other as well. Both my SansAmp and my iPod have amplifiers in them. Those amplifiers aren't meant to be on the receiving end of another amplifiers watts. Doing so could damage one or both of them.

This explanation:



just didn't make any sense to me. A wire is a wire is a wire. They don't have "one way" signs on them.

I ditched out of this thread because things were getting nasty, but I'm back. Hoping things are more chill now.

The problem isn't the wire, it's that the two voltage sources will try to drive each other. One of two things will happen - if the voltage sources have unlimited power and are reasonably low internal impedance, the transient currents generated when there's a significant voltage difference between the two will melt the wires. If the voltage sources (most likely the output of an opamp or a transitor buffer) have limited power and a decent internal resistance, one or both of the signals will be distorted when those output stages are driven outside their design limits. If this situation created a large problem along these lines, it's possible to burn out something in the output stages as well.

In other words, one or both of the signals into the headphone amp will probably distort.

A good mixer, either active or passive, will provide a high input resistance along with buffering (in an active design) to prevent this from happening.

 

[CH Design]

Not sure if it's been mentioned or not (didn't read past the first page), but a GK MB200 would work. Plug your bass into the input, plug your mp3 player into the AUX (1/8") input on the back and plug your headphones into the headphone output (1/4"). Might be more that you were looking at spending, but it's simple, small, sounds good and could double as a backup if you don't already have one.

The only issue I don't like about it is that the AUX input sums to mono.

 

[mwbassace]

The problem isn't the wire, it's that the two voltage sources will try to drive each other. One of two things will happen - if the voltage sources have unlimited power and are reasonably low internal impedance, the transient currents generated when there's a significant voltage difference between the two will melt the wires. If the voltage sources (most likely the output of an opamp or a transitor buffer) have limited power and a decent internal resistance, one or both of the signals will be distorted when those output stages are driven outside their design limits. If this situation created a large problem along these lines, it's possible to burn out something in the output stages as well.

In other words, one or both of the signals into the headphone amp will probably distort.

A good mixer, either active or passive, will provide a high input resistance along with buffering (in an active design) to prevent this from happening.

This is not true. Two voltage sources in series are additive, and in parallel are that voltage. They won't try to drive each other. Simply put there is either a diode or transistor that keeps the signals from going anywhere but the load, which is the headphones. Of course if you drive anything beyond it's parameters it will distort, that's correct.

 

[totallyfrozen]

...just didn't make any sense to me. A wire is a wire is a wire. They don't have "one way" signs on them...

That's not totally true. I understand that you might not understand the idea of what I meant yet; however, think about it this way there are a send and receive ends on the wire. The wire itself doesn't determine that (not the type of wire we are talking about) but the devices do.

When you connect two things (devices) together via a wire, electricity doesn't simply surge back and forth between the devices on each end (unless those devices are designed to make that happen). Electrcity can flow one way down a wire. The devices connected are what determine what's going down a wire.

In other words, the signal coming from your bass amp is not going to loop back into your iPod (if you hook things up right). The signals from both the bass and the iPod will go to the headphones.

By connecting all these devices together with a set of extension cables and adapters, you may suffer some loss of volume or maybe some RF interference but that's about the extent of the risk. I've done this with lots of stuff...drum machines, synthesizers, electric guitars, basses, iPods, etc. Losing some volume is going to be the only problem that you run into. If you think about how powerful your bass amp is and how comparitively weak your iPod's amp is, you can see how you might have to make some adjustments to get the bass quiet enough to hear the iPod through the set up.

P.S. Sorry if I came off in a rude way in my previous post.

 

[totallyfrozen]

The problem isn't the wire, it's that the two voltage sources will try to drive each other...

No they won't. You aren't simply connecting a single piece of wire between the outputs of both sources. If that were the case, they wouldn't make or sell those Y adapters.

When you take a shower, does the hot water go back down the cold water pipe? No, BOTH the hot and cold water join and come out the faucet.

 

[PhiDeck]

As stated before, they make and sell Y cables and adapters so that you can connect one output to two inputs. Previously unstated (by me), but implied, is that they make mixers so that you can connect two (or more) outputs to one input.

Everyone arguing otherwise, please identify where and when you obtained your electrical engineering degree. I may be contacting your alma mater's accreditation authority.

 

[ack]

BUY THE FRIGGIN' VOX!!!!!!
No Y cables or electricians needed.

 

[ack]

I use a ZOOM H4N. Checking your particular solution, requires a 1/4'' to mini headphone converter, some headphones, an ipod (everyone has one of these right?). No problem with noise and you have one of the best portable affordable solutions and a pretty sweet recording device.

McGlyph - quick question about using the H4n: Does your output seem to distort at higher levels? I had to lower the output level on the H4n to around 70% or so to eliminate it.

Thanks for the idea. Works nicely and like you said, you can record both channels.

 

[Rob22315]

This is not true. Two voltage sources in series are additive, and in parallel are that voltage. They won't try to drive each other. Simply put there is either a diode or transistor that keeps the signals from going anywhere but the load, which is the headphones. Of course if you drive anything beyond it's parameters it will distort, that's correct.

No, that's entirely incorrect (except the part about two voltage source in series adding) - two voltage sources connected by a Y connector to a single receiver (e.g. headphones) are in parallel. When the voltages differ, what I stated will occur - since the sources are two different signals, they will end up driving each other.

Two sources connected via a Y connector (in parallel) without a proper mixing circuit will either distort or fry unless the signal levels are low enough for the two sources to handle it.

 

[scottfeldstein]

BUY THE FRIGGIN' VOX!!!!!!
No Y cables or electricians needed.

That is one of the most sensible solutions going. It is more expensive than the Behringer mixer, will not plug directly into my bass (as advertised) and would require an adapter of some sort, has reports of it distorting basses with active signals... but it is probably the top or second-to-top solution that's been kicked around in this whole discussion. The other one being the Behringer mixer and 1/8" -> dual RCA adapter.

 

[Rob22315]

No they won't. You aren't simply connecting a single piece of wire between the outputs of both sources. If that were the case, they wouldn't make or sell those Y adapters.

When you take a shower, does the hot water go back down the cold water pipe? No, BOTH the hot and cold water join and come out the faucet.

Because someone sells it, it must be good. Well said PT Barnum. Analogies between electricity and water only go so far. You've pushed them too far.

Here's a great idea to test your theory - take a 6 volt battery and connect it in parallel with a 1.5 volt battery then connect that to a light bulb. Order doesn't matter - hook the bulb up first. According your explanation, the 1.5v will flow to light bulb completely separately from the 6v lightbulb even though the two batteries are connected to the same wires. Post your results here. Please wear gloves and safety glasses, just in case.

A Y connector is nothing more than a couple of wires and jacks unless the specs note the existence of some form of mixing circuit. I haven't seen one commonly sold that has one although I'm sure someone somewhere sells one. Even a basic two channel mixer has a passive or active mixing circuit in it.

 

[scottfeldstein]

A Y connector is nothing more than a couple of wires and jacks unless the specs note the existence of some form of mixing circuit.

This is what I meant when I said a wire is a wire is a wire. They don't have "one way" signs on them. I don't need an engineering degree to intuit that.

 

[mcglyph]

McGlyph - quick question about using the H4n: Does your output seem to distort at higher levels? I had to lower the output level on the H4n to around 70% or so to eliminate it.

Thanks for the idea. Works nicely and like you said, you can record both channels.

I've never experienced any distortion, well I don't turn it up too loud though. I also use Senn HD650's so they do pretty well with whatever I throw at them. Glad you are loving the H4N, it really is an awesome device.

 

[mcglyph]

Total cost for Amplitube was right about $50 (cost me $20 for the app, about $30 for the iRig adapter). It just happens to have effects built in. You also don't have to use other handy built in features like a presets, a tuner, metronome or recorder... it's just all there in one handy app. There are free and Lite (LE) versions on the iStore too, if you want to explore it a bit before actually shelling out cash.

If you're absolutely against effects period, there's also Gallien Krueger's [Invalid or Expired Link Removed], another iOS app (and I have this one on my iPad as well). The iRig adapter works for this app, but GK also has their own version, the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. Again, you can jam along with tracks on your device. Again, this app has a free version as well, full version is only $4.99.

Just making suggestions based on you saying you're looking for a headphone practice rig and you'd already be using an iOS device.

I haven't gotten either one to work in a live situation yet, but have only tried once... I've heard of people doing it though, so I may give it another go.

EDIT: The practice rig I actually use at home is a Line6 Toneport UX1 with Podfarm.

5sg.

I have the Amplitube, and while it is a decent sounding device, it couldn't be more flimsy. Really just not designed to last more than a week of real use. Thin plastic body, controls, etc. Can't someone make a device like that for twice as much, built like something a musician might be able to add to his life? How hard can it be? If it did the same thing and was even aluminum, it would be worth it at 1/3 more the price. Jeez. Cheap soon to be junk...junk!