• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Help - How do bands get that "Balanced" sound?

tunewriter

tunewriter

Jul 26, 2012
108
26
#1
Whenever we rehearse it never fails that the instruments soon begin to drown out the vocals and when we try to turn up the vocals, we get feedback. So, we ask everyone to please turn down a notch or two and then people, either can't hear themselves or they, cannot hear each other. We have an 8 channel 1000W MACKI Stereo PA and two new Pevey SP2's. I know this must be a monitor, or lack of a monitor, issue but could someone try and explain the most cost effective way we might solve this problem? What about earphones, personal monitors? How the heck are these things hooked up? I do know that all successful bands are 'Balanced' and I do not want to stay in the garage forever.:help: Very appreciative for any help offered.
 
#3
Speaker placement and maturity.

The pa speakers should be facing the singer so his mic is pointing away from them. This allows maximum gain before feedback.

The guitarists/ keyboards/ bass whatever have to me mature enough to play at a reasonable volume as well. If your rehearsal space is big enough don't stand right in front of your amps either. This projects the sound right past your kneecaps and fills the room with volume you can't hear so inevitably you turn up louder
 
#5
mambo4 is right. vocals needs to be the most important. But if you set up your amps and PA in somewhat of a semi circle facing the drums, you should be able to hear everything if you stand in the middle.

That is unless you have to practice like you are playing a gig... then you need monitors. I've been in bands that did it both ways and it was fine, you just get used to hearing everything, or only one guitar player. Just make sure you set up shop next to the better of the two, otherwise it gets really old listening to bad chops and harsh tone :D

Good luck
 
#6
yeah, most of it is speaker placement in the room, and your levels.

Try to dial in the vocals to 'miss' the feedback frequencies: dial back, instead of up on hi/mid/lo.
Everyone should be working together to get a band sound: guitarist is not stepping on bass sound, etc.
All pro bands have a sound that compliment each player...by the time you've heard of them, they've ejected the guy who noodles all over the mix, the guy who cannot turn down, the drummer who tries to drown everyone out...

Yes, I know there are great bands with these elements, but you can imagine how much worse the previous guys were...
 
#10
I've played in so many bands that I cant remember them all, but one common thread was rehearsing at very low volume. There is absolutely no reason to rehearse at gig volume. The drummer can play with multirods, and other instruments with practice amps. The last band I was in that insisted on rehearsing at gig level was back in the late 80s. I told them to shove it.
 
#11
consider the cab placement, for monitoring,
the vocal mixing, for controlling feedback for everyone's sake
but the volume is clutch.

The band that practices loud, plays loud. And cannot comprehend concepts like "playing to the room" once they take to the stage.
 
#12
Maturity to play at a lower volume to be able to hear what everyone is playing.

You might be surprised to hear the parts that other band members are playing.
Undoubtedly you'll hear "oh that's cool, when did you start playing that cool riff?" when it's what you've been playing all along.
 
#13
mambo4 said:
It starts with the instruments willingly lowering their volume and getting behind the vocals. Everyone needs to sign off on that. Careful amp placement (pointed at ears not shins) is a big help.
Click to expand...

+1 This is, of course, the answer.

If your singer is very peaky, I have found a compressor allows me to get a lot louder on the vocals without feedback. I am now a huge fan of a compressor on vocals.

But this may just make the problem worse. I find that the more I turn up the vocals, the more the guitar player turns up to overpower them :atoz:

Of course, the corollary is not true. If you turn down the vocals, the guitar will stay as is :scowl:
 
#14
seanm said:
I find that the more I turn up the vocals, the more the guitar player turns up to overpower them :atoz:

Of course, the corollary is not true. If you turn down the vocals, the guitar will stay as is :scowl:
Click to expand...
guitar amp volume knobs have ratchet mechanisms only allowing them to turn clockwise, i thought you knew that :p

a "1000w" mackie head and a pair of new SP-2s should be able to get blasting loud in rehearsals;

point the speakers at the backs of the vocal mics (as has been suggested) and take down the lowest band of EQ on the head, both at the channels and on the graphic. you don't need 100Hz or below for vocals.
 
#16
sounds like an eq problem to me. sounds like the classic case of everyone scooping their mids out. try turning the guitars' mids up and their bass down. you can stay nice and scooped or you could try add some low mids. you might wanna turn up the high mids on the vocals but your guitars should dominate that middle range, imo.
 
#17
Sounds like all of the above to me. First of all, you need monitors. You also need everyone to cooperate when it comes to volume. It would be very beneficial if everyone understands how to EQ their rig ( including the mixer).

A few observations about practice volume:

It is not incorrect to set up exactly the way you gig when you rehearse. A lot of it depends on the size of your practice space. It may be helpful to shut the mains off and beg the drummer to play quietly while you are arranging new songs, but if you are working on your LIVE SHOW, it is perfectly acceptable to mimic the gig situation as closely as possible.
Asking a drummer to use hot rods is like asking a guitar player to turn off his pedal board. Neither will be happy and in my experience, we are way more productive when we are happy.

My advice to the OP is this:

Set the band up, all facing the same direction ( out).
Point the mains at the back of the vocal mics.
Listen to Walter W's advice about EQING the mics.
Turn all the instrument rigs down to the lowest volume level needed to mix with the drummer ( possibly break a few fingers on your drummers right hand if necessary).
Do NOT scoop the mids on either the bass rig or the guitar amp.
Reach over to your guitar players amp and turn his bass knob down.
Boost the mids on the bass rig.
Buy some monitors, learn how to hook them up and learn how to adjust your sound system on the fly.
 
#19
You have a 1000w Mackie and you can't hear the vocals? Wow yeah turning down the instruments is a start but you did not mention what type of music you are doing and what the drummer is playing if you are metal and the drummer is on a double kick and a pounder you may need to start with him first. If he is not the issue then get the instruments to lie just under the vocals and only as loud as the drums. Balanced is the right word. A way we controlled our balance was we ran everything through the board and monitored through cans to make sure the sound was right. Everyone has to be willing to lower their volume to acceptable levels also if you have a non believer that he is the problem record your practice and sit and listen to it. It is easier to show them then put them on the offensive by stating you are the problem. Good luck
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back