Help me solve a band dispute about a recording!

[1954bassman]

Here is my first thought:

The whole track is enjoyable, and all things considered, a very good cut.

For my taste, vocals would be mixed hotter.

Overall, kudos to the band for all their hard work to turn out a pretty good sounding demo, IMO.

Sage advice: There will always be something on studio (or live) recordings that you will thing could have sounded better, or played better.

 

[mr13ump]

You should listen to everyone in the band, but you need not obey everyone in the band. Unless there's someone established as the "band director" or some-such, it sounds like it ought to be your (the composer's) final call as to how the arrangement goes.

If the singer is in position, perhaps not to lead the band, but to audition tracks for others (as seems to be the case), then you might consider agreeing with the singer's suggestion just for the sake of increased visibility on the song itself.

But ultimately it sounds to me like your decision.

For what it's worth, from a random person on the internet, I think that the piano sounds better on the first verse (just playing on the one, as you say) than later in the song. You might consider having the piano chords stab on every beat, but make them clean and staccato. But even beyond that, I personally don't think a piano sounds great in this arrangement in the first place. What would you think of replacing the piano with Hammond organ?

I would love that, but in terms of access it is a completely different story. I think I left my Hammond organ in my other pants.

 

[Billybladez66]

I would love that, but in terms of access it is a completely different story. I think I left my Hammond organ in my other pants.

If you have access to one..even a little Casio or something, maybe try a Fender Rhodes or electric piano tone...something not quite as stark and glaring for the stabs in the first verse...just a thought.... Carry on good sir...

 

[mr13ump]

If you have access to one..even a little Casio or something, maybe try a Fender Rhodes or electric piano tone...something not quite as stark and glaring for the stabs in the first verse...just a thought.... Carry on good sir...

Yeah I know what you mean. I do actually have a little synth I can experiment with, but I really like the piano around the guitar solo section when he is playing the right hand arpeggios so I'm not going to cut the part completely.

 

[mr13ump]

I thought exactly the same thing. The rest of the tune is funky and syncopated so the whole-note block chords seem kind of clunky to me in comparison.

The drummer needs to watch his time when he plays fills (and you need to help him stay on the one as he comes out of them). As others stated, the vocals could stand some compression, and the singer some mic technique. As someone else stated, it might be nice to double the guitar and bass for only a small section or sections of the song so it doesn't get monotonous. I'm not trying to attack the performance, just making arranging suggestions that might help bring out something you guys hadn't thought of. Since you've asked us to play back-seat producer, this is pretty much what a producer would do; make suggestions that help to bring out the best in your band's performance of the song.

Some of the sounds are a bit rough, but the equipment is new to you and learning micing techniques, and recording techniques in general, takes a long time. Considering this was done right out of the gate with little experience and brand new gear, it sounds pretty good. It's a cool tune with a lot of potential. Use your new recording gear to record every rehearsal and you'll learn a lot very quickly. Try recording the same instrument with different mics or with the mic in different locations. Pay attention to what differences these subtleties make. A person could spend ages just exploring the different ways you can mic a piano. The same holds true for guitar amps. There's so much to explore, and I've only just touched on micing! EQ is a whole other learning curve in and of itself, and that's still before we even get to any outboard processing like compression, reverbs, gates or delays. Multitrack recording (or recording multiple tracks to stereo) isn't something you learn overnight. It's a lot of trial and error, a lot of reading everything you can get your hands on, a lot of jumping at any opportunity to work with people better than you that you can learn from, a lot of doing things wrong and learning from them. Just keep doing it and you'll start to hear the answers to your questions, if you know what I mean. You're already on the right track.

Thanks for the thought out reply! This is really the first time I have ever filled this role in any of my bands, and it is something I am going to have to acclimate to. I don't know any of the tricks of the trade yet, but so far I think I got a product that sounds pretty decent. Check out the other song on my soundcloud if you want to hear something I did outside of a live environment. I don't necessary have the know how, but I think I'm doing okay on my own and I know I still have a lot to learn.

 

[mr13ump]

Nothing wrong w/ Keys...but singer....well.....(this may sound bad but I would search for a singer who gives this type of music justice) Please no offense meant.
Just an outside opinion of someone that has been in business a while. But of course it's just my 1-1/2 cent.

Like the song very much. Nice bass work on your part too!

So ok, I have to agree with @mcarp555 and suggest cutting the chatter off the front too.

And while I'm not particularly enamored with the piano stabs in the first verse myself, I'm not put off by them either.

I'm more concerned with the syncing between the guitar and the bass in the first minute and change. If you're going to double a line you have to be spot on and perfectly in sync with each other. To my ear it feels a little off in a few places time-wise. Especially between 1:02-1:04. There's a noticeable bobble or something going on there that really caught my ear in a not good way.

As to the vocals...yeah...the vocals...

I can't say I really care for the vocal, as recorded, at all. It might work better with a woman's voice doing it that way. But it sorta strikes me as a guy trying to do Etta James or Aretha for some strange reason - and it just doesn't work for me. It's a little too clean, nasal, and snarly for my taste. But that's me. And what do I know anyway? I'm just a bass player.

Thanks! Yeah sometimes when discussions like this take place i feel like I am just treading water in a sea that I am out of my depth in. In my head I am a bassist who plays guitar sometimes, but in this band I have somehow morphed into lyricist and composer as well as audio engineer and bassist. I guess I just have to try my best at it and not give up, because there's not much else I know how to do.

 

[mr13ump]

I'm now certain that I will never ask talkbass for production advice.
he posts a song made with new equipment and now he's got to... kick out his singer, replace his drummer with a computer, buy a bunch of microphones, and hire a producer
Music is supposed to be fun, especially at the beginning.
I would listen your band members before anyone here, your doing great and you're open to criticism which is an excellent trait.
Go make another song! Don't listen to us fools.

Haha I showed this post to my guitarist and he said something to this effect. Thanks for the support, and I will take your advice about not listening to internet people too much, Mr. Internet Person!

 

[mr13ump]

That was good!

Hey thanks! We try.

 

[40Hz]

Thanks! Yeah sometimes when discussions like this take place i feel like I am just treading water in a sea that I am out of my depth in. In my head I am a bassist who plays guitar sometimes, but in this band I have somehow morphed into lyricist and composer as well as audio engineer and bassist. I guess I just have to try my best at it and not give up, because there's not much else I know how to do.

Yes indeed. Been there a few times myself.

That minor touch of discomfort - and feeling just a tiny bit overwhelmed - is a sure sign you're growing, both as a musician and a person. And that can never be a bad thing.

Onward!

 

[Lo-E]

...and I know I still have a lot to learn.

I did my first work in a commercial studio sometime around 1985 and I know I still have a lot to learn, too!

There is no destination; it's all about the journey. Just like playing an instrument. Just like doing anything worth doing.

 

[FilterFunk]

In the intro, I'd prefer the piano hits on the and of 3 or 4. The riff, imho, becomes overbearing quickly. I'd try pulling that back a bit.

^All of this.

The opening guitar/bass riff is very good and very catchy.

 

[HawldieMPB]

Of course getting a good kit sound with limited mics is possible with trial and error, but if he already has the microphones and the inputs there's no reason to not focus on how to properly mix a fully mic'ed kit now instead of later.

Even in a live club setting, unless it's a really small place and only the kick is mic'ed, you usually have kick/snare/hi-hat/toms/overheads.

I really don't disagree with anything you've said here aside from the bit about programming, and I never meant to suggest should learn how to program instead of learning how to get a good kit sound; it's just an incredibly useful skill to have these days, both for writing (if the drummer or anyone else has a groove idea, they don't have to wait to track it live in order to share it) and for sample reinforcement/replacement at the advanced level.

Yeah I don't disagree with any of that. Sorry I was very tired when I wrote that so I may have misunderstood what you originally said.

 

[HawldieMPB]

True... I tend to overkill on drums when I record. I'll put 2 mics on the kick, 2 on the snare, one on each tom, hihat, and then 2 overheads. The sad part is that now you don't even need to do that much. Just midi-trigger everything and use drumagog to replace the sounds with ones you prefer.

Recording has come so far, but at the same time have we lost an art to it? I loved the experimentation of recording. Trying different things and seeing how they work on tape. You just really don't get that anymore. Remember "bouncing" tracks in order to get more tracks in?

Its amazing how much it's still 50/50 new and old though. I'm young (20s) and I still use tape and outboard gear. But I use a DAW too. It's "the sound" but with modern conveniences. In the end, analogue sounds better to my ears, but is a PitA, so I use both.

 

[Zirc]

I wrote the entire song, music and lyrics. I also own all of the recording equipment and mixed everything. If anyone on earth has a claim to this song it is definitely me. I still think though, that if you bring a song like this to a band you are acknowledging that you value their input and opinions and they should have some say in the creative product.

Sure they have input, but you as the writer and producer, because of your recording and mixer gear, have the final say.

Piano isn't stepping on any toes, tell that guitarist to get a better amp.