Help me understand this mentality

[easyj]

I wouldn’t give a flake like that a recommendation. It’s not like you are holding him back or anything, you just aren’t helping him. He’ll be fine without you, just like you were forced to be fine without him.

 

[MordBass]

Oh, okay...so let's see how that recommendation might have been written: "This student did a great job as president of our student organization, and then, about six months into the job, he literally disappeared and refused to communicate at all with me or any of the other students on his executive team. I recommend him highly!" LOL...maybe the OP should have written THAT recommendation for the student. Unless, of course, you just think the OP should have lied for the kid...

I never said anybody should lie at all. I'm just saying that there's no such thing as a perfect person so its pretty common for references to omit details where you were at your worst.
Additionally, I mentioned that this is entirely based on taking the OP at their word and said that since the student was offered the position in the first place, we can deduce that there were also plenty of positive attributes.
Unless, of course, you think every recommendation should highlight the worst experience you've had with the person.

 

[Stumbo]

People can't deal with the possibility that any confrontation could result on someone not taking it favorably...

What, so you live your life trying never saying or doing anything to offend anyone? Where did you learn that was the way to solve problems?

You know, People can't read your mind.

If something is bothering you, You have to speak up, make your case, defend your position, use facts, tell people what you want, what you need as the situation arises; not after you can't take it anymore.

Will you always get what you want? Obviously, no.

But maybe you will.

It's called being in a relationship and part of being mature.

So, instead of letting things build up and quitting by text and blocking the band members' numbers, you possibly can alter the situation with logic and diplomacy.

Your way, IME, is the way to end up alone because people get real tired, real fast of passive-aggressiveness.

Since you don't really speak up for what you believe, what you want, what you need, seems to me you're living a lie, saying what people want to hear until you don't want to do that any more. Fickleness is not pretty.

IMO, that's a sad, sad way to live your life.

You're doomed to repeat this scenario unless you learn how to see confrontations or discussions as they can be: an opportunity to use your verbal skills to possibly change things.

Feeling overwhelmed by these situations and Dealing with things by running away may be a sign that some counseling may help.

Good luck.

 

[PJMustangFreak]

What, so you live your life trying never saying or doing anything to offend anyone? Where did you learn that was the way to solve problems?

You know, People can't read your mind.

If something is bothering you, You have to speak up, make your case, defend your position, use facts, tell people what you want, what you need as the situation arises; not after you can't take it anymore.

Will you always get what you want? Obviously, no.

But maybe you will.

It's called being in a relationship and part of being mature.

So, instead of letting things build up and quitting by text and blocking the band members' numbers, you possibly can alter the situation with logic and diplomacy.

Your way, IME, is the way to end up alone because people get real tired, real fast of your passive-aggressiveness.

Since you don't really speak up for what you believe, what you want, what you need, you're living a lie, saying what people want to hear until you don't want to do that any more. Fickleness is not pretty.

IMO, that's a sad, sad way to live your life.

You're doomed to repeat this scenario unless you learn how to see confrontations or discussions as they probably really are, are an opportunity to use your verbal skills to possibly change things.

Feeling overwhelmed by these situations and Dealing with things by running away may be a sign that some counseling may help.

Good luck.

I'm aware. Looking back, I'm not proud. I was just trying to contribute to this thread. Please don't start suggesting that I get counseling or something. That wasn't the point here.

 

[easyj]

It’s a good lesson in life to learn to not burn bridges.

 

[Stumbo]

Unless, of course, you think every recommendation should highlight the worst experience you've had with the person.

Yeah, it should, especially if the person disappeared while on the job, even if it was a volunteer job.

Better to decline writing a recommendation. The potential employer will figure it out, especially if they call and ask if the person is eligible for rehire and you say no.

Why put your good name on the line for someone who screwed you over. That makes no sense.

 

[MordBass]

Yeah, it should, especially if the person disappeared while on the job, even if it was a volunteer job.

Better to decline writing a recommendation. The potential employer will figure it out, especially if they call and ask if the person is eligible for rehire and you say no.

Why put your good name on the line for someone who screwed you over. That makes no sense.

If they call and ask if the person is eligible for rehire? I mean, you are aware of the situation here, right?

 

[Stumbo]

I'm aware. Looking back, I'm not proud. I was just trying to contribute to this thread. Please don't start suggesting that I get counseling or something. That wasn't the point here.

You can't control the content of my posts. That's a foolish comment.

See, you can't even handle social media discussions (confrontations as you call them) that don't go your way.

Please ignore me so you can feel better about yourself.

Have a nice day.

 

[PJMustangFreak]

You can't control the content of my posts. That's a foolish comment.

See, you can't even handle social media discussions (confrontations as you call them) that don't go your way.

Please ignore me so you can feel better about yourself.

Have a nice day.

I can handle them just fine. Nobody is trying to control them. Needless abrasiveness will get you nowhere in life. You know nothing about me

 

[MordBass]

I can handle them just fine. Nobody is trying to control them. Needless abrasiveness will get you nowhere in life. You know nothing about me

Needless abrasiveness hits the nail on head. +1

 

[sean_on_bass]

Why would you give an unreliable person a reference? The whole point of references is to weed out unreliable people, so that they don't then visit their idiocy on other unsuspecting people. The KID needs to understand that other people exist in the world, and that his behavior affects those other people. THAT'S how you survive in nature. If he can't learn that, he's going to be at a big disadvantage in life, and that tends to snowball and eventually bury the person. But hey, at least he followed his "natural urges," right?

You are proving my point. Do you really think that his indiscretions in college class work actually matter, and will form his quality of life from here on out? I failed out of many college classes, blew off many professors, and currently have a successful career. My GPA wasn't great either, through high school and college, and i skipped more classes than i can count on both hands. To jump to the conclusion that this will "bury" him is insane. Yes, i would give an unreliable person a good reference, because the whole system of it is bullsh*t anyway. Many companies don't even follow up on references anymore due to them being so meaningless.

 

[Cliff Colton]

A good reference letter should state positive qualities of the student that are known to the teacher. In this case, the letter could conclude: ‘In addition to the facts stated above, this student was also president of the student council and performed admirably for six months until he learned most of the student body did not want to get involved. He sent me his resignation via email but it went to my spam folder and I did not see it. I continued sending him emails which he politely ignored and never once did he lose his cool to tell me to stop harassing him.

I highly recommend this student for employment and everyone on TB agrees with me.’

 

[-Asdfgh-]

I wouldn’t give a flake like that a recommendation. It’s not like you are holding him back or anything, you just aren’t helping him. He’ll be fine without you, just like you were forced to be fine without him.

I'd want to know if they were or were not 'a flake' before declining. Something significant may have happened in their life which, from one perspective, might make them look like a flake but which, from another, might make them look heroic for continuing to keep going in any capacity. I flunked out of some stuff in college, but that because my parents were going through a very bitter divorce and I was having panic attacks. I didn't tell anyone apart from some medical staff about it and so didn't get credit for the situation in my final degree result and so didn't get the expected 1st class degree (the best possible result in the UK at the time) which in and of itself affected my later job prospects. Yes, I was stupid not to have made more of a fuss about it at the time, but I was having panic attacks but logical thought around this time wasn't much in evidence.

 

[John j]

It's a two-way street.
Employers and employees can terminate with or without cause for any reason.
Have you ever fired someone without notice?
Employers now use temp agency so they can avoid confrontation. They just call the temp up and say we don't want them back.
We don't hear 'clear the air' sessions anymore either.
In this politically correct Society anything can be a transgression.
Diane Muldar started in the original Star Trek series. At that time it was expected to have heated discussions.
the main characters of a show had heated discussions disagree with each other on a regular basis. But they would clear the air and resolve it.
Fast forward to the TNG series when she used that same interactions she was surprised to be released for it.

 

[Biffa]

You seem to have a lot of people who just stop commu..........

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Employers and employees can terminate with or without cause for any reason.

That's only true in some parts of the USA. Here in the UK it certainly isn't true and I don't think the use of temp agencies is any greater here.

We don't hear 'clear the air' sessions anymore either.

It happens in the UK.

Fast forward to the TNG series when she used that same interactions she was surprised to be released for it.

I suspect that isn't the full story. Edit: indeed, it seems that Muldaur had never intended to star in TNG from what I had read, and was just there because McFadden had left, and it was pending a permanent resolution to that situation. Apparently there were issues working with the rest of the cast as well but that was not the reason for departure.

 

[Jazz Ad]

Since you don't really speak up for what you believe, what you want, what you need, you're living a lie, saying what people want to hear until you don't want to do that any more. Fickleness is not pretty.

IMO, that's a sad, sad way to live your life.

When everyone within a group speaks his mind and expect his desire to become reality, cohesion goes down the drain.
Discret, sacrificial personalities are essential to the well being of the group and way, way underrated.
If you ever have to manage a team you know that you can't only surround yourself with competitive winners and creative minds.

You need at least 1/3rd of people who accept to gently follow the rules, staying in the background, not putting their own desires first. A bassist should understand this kind of thing.
In most traditional societies it's a support role that was given to women by default. Nowadays it should be shared equally and praised as an essential cog in the machine.

Feeling overwhelmed by these situations and Dealing with things by running away may be a sign that some counseling may help.

The only reason you think this way is because competition has been drilled into your head, from the day you saw your first football game and superhero cartoon.
It's not supported by any science. All we have going this way is a set of tools to help us being successful within society, such as personal development guides.
Stepsiding problems is an efficient, although anarchic and unpopular way to solve issues. You see it in nature every day, shallow bahaviors tend to lead to better survivors.

 

[easyj]

I'd want to know if they were or were not 'a flake' before declining. Something significant may have happened in their life which, from one perspective, might make them look like a flake but which, from another, might make them look heroic for continuing to keep going in any capacity. I flunked out of some stuff in college, but that because my parents were going through a very bitter divorce and I was having panic attacks. I didn't tell anyone apart from some medical staff about it and so didn't get credit for the situation in my final degree result and so didn't get the expected 1st class degree (the best possible result in the UK at the time) which in and of itself affected my later job prospects. Yes, I was stupid not to have made more of a fuss about it at the time, but I was having panic attacks but logical thought around this time wasn't much in evidence.

Maybe it’s time that this person was honest about what really happened. An explanation of their actions may go a long way when they are asking for a recommendation from somebody.

 

[Vooter]

You are proving my point. Do you really think that his indiscretions in college class work actually matter, and will form his quality of life from here on out? I failed out of many college classes, blew off many professors, and currently have a successful career. My GPA wasn't great either, through high school and college, and i skipped more classes than i can count on both hands. To jump to the conclusion that this will "bury" him is insane. Yes, i would give an unreliable person a good reference, because the whole system of it is bullsh*t anyway. Many companies don't even follow up on references anymore due to them being so meaningless.

You're free to give recommendations to as many unreliable people as you want, but I won't. Then again, I actually DIDN'T fail out of ANY college classes, didn't blow any professors off, and have also had a successful career. How about this: YOU take the misunderstood flakes, and I'll take the responsible people who treat others with respect and manners. Deal?

 

[PauFerro]

Your job is to find a new student president and to make sure this doesn’t happen again. I’ve never been to a school where the student president disappeared and nobody knew where he was, so if this happens again I can’t help you.

I did that -- easily. They know before they join that if they miss 2 meetings without sending regrets, they are assumed to have resigned. We talk about expectations up front, and there is also a job description.

The new team is functioning well enough, actually better now that the other guy in #1 has been removed.