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Help me understand this mentality

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My friends with children say that their kids are less social than we were years ago. Many of them don’t actually have real friends, but “online friends”. They have this whole other online world that they focus on. They take this online world more seriously than their real interactions with real people in their lives.

My friends daughter, in her 20’s, was upset and depressed that nobody acknowledged her birthday. As it turned out she got calls and visits from her actual friends and family, but not enough Facebook and Twitter posts. Her mom had to explain to her what really mattered. A lot of people seek validation online and place value on that, but have less respect for what is going on right in front of them.

I've heard of research (although through responsible media, not through the original papers) that kids now are more sociable than 30 years ago and have about as many in-person friends as then and online ones in addition. Of course there is probably other research showing something different. However, apparently they keep in touch even with in-person friends through electronic communication because it is ubiquitous and because the growth of suburbs and reduction in parents feeling happy with kids cycling means that the easiest way to keep in touch. Back in my day we didn't even have a phone at home so I couldn't phone friends, so I had to walk to cycle to talk to them, but if I'd had a mobile phone I'd have contacted them more and probably have seen them more as it would have been more convenient to arrange meeting up.
 
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Why do folks stare at their phones at an event or concert?.. If aliens landed on your block a good portion of your neighbors would run outside and stare at their phones instead..

Is it because ego stroking & mis-perceived social standing rank above everything else..?

(Did you know the same brain receptors are triggered by checking Facebook & the "you could be a winner?" hum you hear in a casino?)

And the mind is re-wired, attention span is ancient history & what was once following thru on a project holds no interest..

Your ideas "sounded" good, You were rewarding someone, you were looking to collaborate with someone, People like the idea of responsibility but don't wish to see it through..
The thrill wears off too quickly, it required too much work with too little payoff, There were new bright shiny objects to chase.. It's everywhere, not just on your block..
Well Put!
 
Remember case #1 above where the guy even had so little self-awareness he thought it was a good idea to call me for a reference afterwards, not even mentioning his previous radio silence and well, firing.

As a prof with students who do this (and other equally baffling things) with some frequency, I am super interested in this question.

I understand this:

some people don’t like confrontation, or are ashamed of accountability.

And I understand this:

you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

But they don't really go together do they? If you're confrontation/shame averse, why put yourself in the situation of going back to the well?

Something like...

critical lack of self-awareness

...seems to be involved, but it's very hard for that not to turn into:

He's a sociopath

...which feels a lot like:

throwing millennials under the bus

Now, I understand that sociopathy is a diagnosis that doesn't involve any condemnation of the individual, and I understand that not all (or even most) millennials are like this, but a LOT of my students do stuff like this, where they seem to have no ability to imagine that they might be contributing to a poor image of themselves in my mind and that it might be to their disadvantage. Maybe I'm just defending myself against the realization of exactly how many sociopaths are coming up in the generation behind me?

I find this an interesting notion, though:

I suspect ghosting is the natural consequence of an increasing number of people not understanding (or simply choosing not to understand) that reality doesn't have a “new game” button.

It suggests that they are literally living in a different social world than I am, which is certainly what it feels like.

If I can add anything new here, it is only this: When the student comes back to you for a reference with no acknowledgment of their previous ghosting, there is a way in which it displaces the guilt/shame onto you. Like, if you bring it up, YOU'RE the one being the jerk. "How DARE you acknowledge my previous failures?!" What's difficult for my stodgy old brain to judge is whether this is really part of the game, or whether I'm projecting this, and they really are authentically confused that I live in a world with social consequences.
 
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^^ 110% ^^ Absolutely! Some kids are raised not to do this, some aren't. That's why I don't partake in social media. You can be anything & say anything, with ZERO consequences.

I hate throwing millennials under the bus, however. They are quite simply products of the environment they were raised in. My kids did not get phones until they could pay for them, & the plan that comes with it, on their own (as a small example). Most of their friends had phones, & you could easily tell whose parents took an active role, & whose didn't.

I know many younger kids who are as bright, smart, engaged, & driven as my generation was (Gen Xer). They have just been raised in a completely different...well, country to be honest. It's unfortunate that kids can't start working as young as I did (12), because then, a lot of times, unsupervised electronics escapades become the babysitter.

...OK, mini-rant over...
Hate to break this to you but you're currently on social media.
 
...Actually I can offer a second thing, which I'm always thinking in relation to my students:

Why don't they just lie?

In my day, when you didn't hand in your paper on time, you told your prof that your Grandma just died, or your car broke down, or your house caught on fire. If they let you hand in your paper late, great, and if they didn't, no harm done. Whether they actually believed your lie was kind of secondary. It was a social nicety that greased the wheels. Now, an increasing number of my students are like "I didn't do the paper, can I have the grades anyway?" and I'm like "Where's my g****** grease?!?!"
 
Yeah Its definitely not a "kids these days" thing, its just easier now IMO. I had a drummer I met years ago, we both liked the same music and when we got together to jam, man, we gelled instantly. Could hit fills together even if we were in different rooms. We wrote so many songs together in a short amount of time. We tried to get bands going and everyone that heard us play together were saying how great it sounded. We never got anything successful going, partially because we were doing proggy, drum/bass-forward Rush-like stuff and the guitarists/singers we played with werent used to that sort of thing....but mostly because this drummer was a total flake! Would just disappear for months then pop back up like nothing happened. I held on to that situation for WAY too long because of how well we played together, but he sounds just like the person the OP described. And, this was in the early 90s. Now, we communicate differently so its easy to hit IGNORE.
 
This has only ever happened in the modern world. Before last year, every young adult or teen was a model of respect, honesty and responsibility. It's only in the last year or so that they started to be these terrible kids...or even worse *millennials* :rage:

This shift in my perspective may be because I just realized I'm almost 40 but I truly believe everyone and everything was better in the "good old days".

Seriously, trying to use isolated experiences to paint an entire generation is not a good rabbit hole to go down.

Now GET OFF MY LAWN (even though I'm in an apartment building that doesn't have one)!

Young people act like young people and always will. It has nothing to do with generation and as you mention, stereotyping is bad.

A guy in my band is recently taken to complaining about "us brainwashed millennials" (lol by the way) and libruls and so on. I'm about to quit.
 
I'm just trying to see the OP's story from multiple angles... but lets look at this in 3 parts. Why did they stop, why didnt they communicate it, why did they come back to ask for a reference.

I've gathered that this is all happening at a university where you're a professor, so I'll assume the position the student was offered is unpaid and stacked on top of their other commitments (academic/financial/personal).

Why did they stop acting in their role?
Could be that they were simply too busy and had to prioritize more important things like having a roof over their head, or getting good grades in their classes.
Perhaps they have mental health issues as some have stated.
Maybe they had a family or personal issue.
The fact that they made it six months could lead us to think that they were balancing responsibilities just fine but something unexpected came up.
Or maybe after six months they simply decided that it wasnt worth their time anymore.

Why didn't they say anything?
Maybe they weren't raised well and don't realize that they've put other people out.
Could be the mental illness possibility as well.
If he was simply overloaded, it could be that he weighed an unpaid "position" with the importance of GPA for the classes that are costing him money.
If they were having a personal/family issue they could've just had other things on their mind and blew this off. I know that I've had issues in the past that have consumed my thoughts for weeks on end.
Are you perhaps hard to approach? I just had a spat with my boss last week and as we sat in the conference room he stood flexed... eyes focused with intent and angrily said with a loud, shaky voice... "if people here have issues with things, they need to say something to me!" I told him that he's a nice guy but gets quickly riled up and intense which is likely the reason that people avoid coming to him with any complaints.

Why did he ask for a reference?
Could be a really simple one to be honest. If he was offered that position, he clearly did a lot of things right. So regardless of the position not working out and how he abandoned it... he likely feels that there are positive things about him that you could vouch. Are you really going to hold somebody to the one bad thing that they did in a position that was ultimately voluntary and unpaid? I mean... he paid to be at that school which makes him a client and you an employee. I kind of feel like he's not wrong to think a reference is reasonable since your entire field is based on the practice of charging money for you to vouch for them.


I guess what I'm trying to say is that we aren't always owed an explanation. I abandoned a job once when I was younger because I had just gotten to work and suddenly had a massive panic attack. First ever. Wound up in an ER, didn't leave my house for three weeks, was on a bunch of meds that were making me worse... it was awful. Took at least two years for the aftershocks to settle down and I can assure you of one thing. I didn't owe an explanation to anybody at that job.
 
Young people act like young people and always will. It has nothing to do with generation and as you mention, stereotyping is bad.

A guy in my band is recently taken to complaining about "us brainwashed millennials" (lol by the way) and libruls and so on. I'm about to quit.
I absolutely feel you on that. Its been my experience that when people make gross generalizations, its because they lack the deductive reasoning to come to a more accurate conclusion.
 
I've been around enough blocks to recognise at least two separate issues here, and neither of them are younger-generation things.

The first two, the drummer and the student, both sound like they got overwhelmed beyond their ability to cope with the situation at all. The pattern I recognise here is somebody suddenly realising they're already in so far over their heads, or the psychological weight (as felt from the inside, before any kids-these-days types start yelling again) that they have no idea how to cope with it. Some freeze, as in the fight, flight or freeze thing, others don't know how to climb back down and feel that the shame of disappearing is preferable to the stress of facing up to the people that they're letting down. In the latter case, yes, they often know what doors they're closing, but as far as they're concerned it's now a question of how those doors are slammed on them, not whether.
I've seen this in normal, healthy people who simply didn't have the experience to know how big the thing would seem when they got there, but particularly in people with an anxiety disorder. If your baseline is somewhere between anxious and freaking out simply because your brain chemistry is out of whack for genetic reasons, getting overwhelmed is a regular fact of life.

The part about coming back and asking for a reference could be a few things, but mostly sounds like a critical lack of self-awareness - particularly common in easily-outraged old white men, but seen in all demographics.

The social media consultant could be a bunch of things: flake, got fired, lost interest and wandered off, personal crisis, or health emergency. Hell, she's a young woman - the chances are uncomfortably high that she's recovering from being raped.

I get (and believe me, have gotten) the frustration when somebody just stops responding, but the upshot is that there's a range of possible reasons, only one of which is the one you're implying: a deliberate, considered decision to walk away and cut ties.
So the best I can offer there is the suggestion to change tone when trying to re-establish contact, assume that there's a very real crisis on their end, and ask what you can do to help. Even if they're just being a flake, it's probably your best chance of getting clues about what's actually going on there. If you have acquaintances in common, try asking them what's wrong, instead of going direct to the person in question - if the person has a history of being a flake, common acquaintances are more likely to tell you that outright. Or, if it was something you said or did, they're also more likely to tell you than the person themself.


Ways of pre-empting this kind of thing? There isn't a silver bullet. You can learn to spot signs that somebody's likely to be less reliable than you need - mostly through painful experience, unfortunately. You can learn to ask questions that tell you how they've delivered (or not) in similar situations, which can also be a useful gauge.
You could find a way to "subtly" mention that somebody already let you down on a similar project, and lament that if they'd only reached out and told you what they were dealing with, you could have found a way to work around it, or at least know that you needed to go ahead and find somebody else - then, if some crisis blows up, there's a better-than-even chance that they'll take the chance of facing your wrath. Then it's on you to take a deep breath and not visit your wrath on them, to cultivate trust in them and in people they tell about how that situation worked out. Or they might not, but it does improve the odds.

The general issue here is that you've run into a Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, and you want to know what state of mind produced that.
It's a regular enough problem among the software developers in the company I work for, that we added "seek first to understand" to the existing set of company values. With large, long-lived codebases, it's common for people to see a section of code for the first time and think, "what kind of lunatic thought that was a good approach to this problem?! Holy cow, what a mess!" and the answer is often that it was actually a reasonable choice under the circumstances - it's just that you get further by asking the perpetrator what the circumstances were, than by venting at them.
Vent away if you need to, just not in a direction that's going to make it harder to resolve the problem at hand.


That was a mite longer than I thought it was going to be; apparently I had more on the subject than I realised at first.
you seem like a rational, aware, observant person
the internet's no place for your kind
 
People can't deal with the possibility that any confrontation could result on someone not taking it favorably. I'm 30, but I've "ghosted" before. Am I proud of it? No. But it was a hell of a lot easier than having to have those awkward conversations. I'm just being honest here.
Now, I never left people hanging for a gig. Never once did I disappear and leave a band screwed.
But confrontation sucks. I once sent a text and said "I quit" and then blocked their numbers so I never had to deal with any fallout. I've also quit a job via email (although it was a hostile work environment and seriously feared for my safety... but that's a different story).
 
So Anyway, you missed your chance to 'Ghost' the recommendation seeker.
And you were probably one of a bunch of folks he broadcasted for a recommendation.
But I can't explain the behavior, since I don't know a lot of folks this young... except my own kids. Who haven't responded to my emails or returned my calls in a while.
Hey! Wait a minute!!
 
Why did he ask for a reference?
Could be a really simple one to be honest. If he was offered that position, he clearly did a lot of things right. So regardless of the position not working out and how he abandoned it... he likely feels that there are positive things about him that you could vouch. Are you really going to hold somebody to the one bad thing that they did in a position that was ultimately voluntary and unpaid? I mean... he paid to be at that school which makes him a client and you an employee. I kind of feel like he's not wrong to think a reference is reasonable since your entire field is based on the practice of charging money for you to vouch for them.

I'm with you, and this uncovers an element i don't particular like about the whole OP. I think that by witholding the reference the OP thinks that they are somehow reinforcing a universal standard of professionalism(man made concept, holds no water to how we survive in nature). In other words, maybe just another attempt by older white men to keep everyone miserable because they were raised to take these things way to seriously and not follow their natural urges. Probably would had just felt better to give the kid the reference.
 
I'm with you, and this uncovers an element i don't particular like about the whole OP. I think that by witholding the reference the OP thinks that they are somehow reinforcing a universal standard of professionalism(man made concept, holds no water to how we survive in nature). In other words, maybe just another attempt by older white men to keep everyone miserable because they were raised to take these things way to seriously and not follow their natural urges. Probably would had just felt better to give the kid the reference.

I mostly agree with you. Not sure what older, white, or men has to do with it though.
But yea, I definitely hear what you're saying. I got a feeling of "I have oh so generously bestowed wonders upon you, hare dare thou not appreciate it." Honestly it sounds like like the main issue I have with education being sold as a for-profit product in the first place.
 
I'm with you, and this uncovers an element i don't particular like about the whole OP. I think that by witholding the reference the OP thinks that they are somehow reinforcing a universal standard of professionalism(man made concept, holds no water to how we survive in nature). In other words, maybe just another attempt by older white men to keep everyone miserable because they were raised to take these things way to seriously and not follow their natural urges. Probably would had just felt better to give the kid the reference.
Why would you give an unreliable person a reference? The whole point of references is to weed out unreliable people, so that they don't then visit their idiocy on other unsuspecting people. The KID needs to understand that other people exist in the world, and that his behavior affects those other people. THAT'S how you survive in nature. If he can't learn that, he's going to be at a big disadvantage in life, and that tends to snowball and eventually bury the person. But hey, at least he followed his "natural urges," right?
 
Why would you give an unreliable person a reference? The whole point of references is to weed out unreliable people, so that they don't then visit their idiocy on other unsuspecting people. The KID needs to understand that other people exist in the world, and that his behavior affects those other people. THAT'S how you survive in nature. If he can't learn that, he's going to be at a big disadvantage in life, and that tends to snowball and eventually bury the person. But hey, at least he followed his "natural urges," right?

Possibly because up until they abandoned that position, they were checking enough boxes to be offered the position in the first place. People should be judged by the whole, not by the last time they screwed up.
Also, theres two sides to every story and we only have the side presented by the OP. For all we know, the "kid" in question is on a drumming forum right now, flaming a professor that wasnt upfront about the expectations of a "position" and wouldnt reasonably accommodate. :thumbsup:
 
Possibly because up until they abandoned that position, they were checking enough boxes to be offered the position in the first place.

Oh, okay...so let's see how that recommendation might have been written: "This student did a great job as president of our student organization, and then, about six months into the job, he literally disappeared and refused to communicate at all with me or any of the other students on his executive team. I recommend him highly!" LOL...maybe the OP should have written THAT recommendation for the student. Unless, of course, you just think the OP should have lied for the kid...
 
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