Backseat meaning the audience doesn't really notice the bassist and, as far as songwriting goes, the baseline doesn't count for copyrights (for the most part). Everybody knows the lead singers name, few know the bassist or drummer or keyboard.
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Hobbyists -vs- Real Musicians?
- Thread starter MultiScaleMale
- Start date
Backseat meaning the audience doesn't really notice the bassist and, as far as songwriting goes, the baseline doesn't count for copyrights (for the most part). Everybody knows the lead singers name, few know the bassist or drummer or keyboard.
I’ve never been paid a dollar to play bass so feel a little weird making this comparison, but here goes: Eons ago a buddy and I got into beer making and kinda got thinking about the levels of home-made-ed-ness. I mean, you can get a kit, (think box cake). You can get different ingredients; picking your own hops, malt or malt extract, etc. (think home made cake). Whilst washing up bottles in preparation for a batch we were making, we got thinking about home extreme you could get with the concept of “home made”. Did you grow your own wheat and hops out int the back yard? That sort of thing...
We kind of agreed that if you didn’t buy the beer at the store and some phase of the operation took place in your kitchen, that was home made. I think that concept applies here. - Hope my little analogy was entertaining. If not will try to do better next time...
We kind of agreed that if you didn’t buy the beer at the store and some phase of the operation took place in your kitchen, that was home made. I think that concept applies here. - Hope my little analogy was entertaining. If not will try to do better next time...
Fresh hops are one of the best things I've ever done for my beermaking. Having said that, even the larger microbreweries around here (New Holland, Founders, Bell's) use mass-produced, pre-packaged malts...though, I suppose the apt analogy for that would be national touring musicians that use Boss or MXR pedals, specifically for their ubiquity. Kit beers, IMO, are analogous to Squier or Epiphone beginner kits; prepackaged ingredients are the next step up, as in the busker or the Friday night act that plays at New Holland, Founders, and Bell's; and being the brewmaster at those facilities would be analogous to a Rob Trujillo, Les Claypool, or Flea.
Oh yeah I guess that depends on genre. Most "pop" music today, nobody knows anyone in the band at all except for the singer who probably doesn't know anyone in the band either. The kind of music I like, everyone knows everyone in the band. It's fanatical. What I was referring to though is musically. If you're doing things right as the bass player, you are absolutely in the driver's seat.
But if we didn't talk trash about every other bass player on the internet, what would we do with our free time?! Something CONSTRUCTIVE? Like PRACTICE? No way!
This is so true.
There's always the aside made while dismissing the importance of the pro/semi/hobby definition that the person was pro for many years and now has more important things to do...
There is so much ego recognition wrapped up in the arts that statements rarely are made without qualification. I even do it in my own head - "I would be playing out much more but for the small kids, fairness to the wife, full time non musical job, house upkeep, other interests, etc. etc..". I am flat out busy most of the time and yet still feel the pull to justify why I am not a "professional" musician, even though I am in three groups plus solo projects, all with semi regular live work!!!
Fricken crazy.
I don't see it thread to thread or band to band, but musician to musician in bands I found over time that "hacking" became a common occurrence when one member would extend themself to write a tune played *this* way, but if you offered an idea that was out of their knowledge, interest, or skill and it was simply laughed off/ slept on it..... well to me that sounds like "hacking".
Maybe my idea of a hack is different from yours.
There's tons of "hacks" in bands that I guess if I were applying descriptions I'd say they are members of bands that act passively when it's in the best interest of a group to contribute to a direction. I guess in a way I've been a hack as well because I simply didn't tell people what they wanted to hear, so I'd get criticized and shut up!
As far as playing covers.... It's a fine line of adding variety, yet picking tunes that keep people's interest. .. make a band of 5-11 members who all have different tastes and you potentially have a disaster. That's why I like writing music, honestly. A chance to get out from the shadows of greater established people.
Anyhow, I'm a know - nothing expensive bass buying reclusive reject hack that hasn't done much important despite trying to go with the flow for years. Tried the "taking charge" stance too ... I'm local public enemy #1 because I know what I seek. Hoping to turn it around some day. LOL
Having been a professional musician for a long time, I don’t get paid as often these days. However, I’m still a musican. My wife worked with me as a full-time musician but she has never had the heart and soul of a musician. She is an artist who writes songs and plays well enough to perform them. She has an artist’s vision and sensibilities and doesn’t jam. I just love to play and making music is a joy. If I’m playing with the right people and the music is good, I don’t need to be paid. Van Gogh didn’t sell pictures but he was an artist. Many excellent musicians don’t get paid to play. We’re not defined by the money.
And don't get a cheesecutter. Not for any musical reason - they're just stupid hats.Don't get a beret. Berets are only for jazz musicians.
You have also ruled out many classical musicians. Many of them cannot improvise and are lost without dots. If you make music with proficiency, you are a musician.
In my view, "professional" is not about pay, but how you treat people. What do people expect when they hire you, or work with you in a band? What if they had to hire you in a pinch, based solely on reputation or qualifications? What would you hope your reputation would say about you? Most of what I learned about professionalism, I learned in middle school band.
Not that it's always mandatory. I've done some pretty obnoxious things as a musician, because music can also be an art form, a protest medium, social activity, etc.
My band is a roughly equal mixture of full-time pro's, school music teachers, retired pro's and teachers, and amateurs like me. We treat one another as equals, while at the same time respecting the people who are committed to the career. The pro's in my locale tend to be appreciative of good amateur performances. There are some areas where amateurs can serve the music in ways that the pro's can't, for instance keeping obscure, historic, and experimental music alive despite a lack of commercial appeal.
Not that it's always mandatory. I've done some pretty obnoxious things as a musician, because music can also be an art form, a protest medium, social activity, etc.
My band is a roughly equal mixture of full-time pro's, school music teachers, retired pro's and teachers, and amateurs like me. We treat one another as equals, while at the same time respecting the people who are committed to the career. The pro's in my locale tend to be appreciative of good amateur performances. There are some areas where amateurs can serve the music in ways that the pro's can't, for instance keeping obscure, historic, and experimental music alive despite a lack of commercial appeal.
True, if you mean in terms of visual prominence, fame, spotlight time, and recognition by the general masses who don't understand what is going on on stage and the value of the bass's contribution to what they are hearing.
Because people in this community are generous and want to help other members of this community.
Perhaps I'm wearing rose-colored glasses, but my theory is that the reason some TB members try (sometimes forcefully) to share their opinions with others in the interest of having others adopt their way of doing things is that they truly believe they have discovered something that is very beneficial to themselves, and they extrapolate that if would be similarly beneficial to others. They altruistically want to help others in this community, so they'll try very hard to convince others to do it their way. They have nothing whatsoever to gain by this, other than being able to feel good about having helped other people. Lo and behold, most humans, as a general rule, like to help other people, and feel good about themselves when they do so. Some people have a higher need for explicit thanks and praise and recognition for their efforts than others.
Amen to that! Having fun should be the main reason not just for playing bass, but for doing most of the optional things in life that we choose to do. The only rule is that your fun should not ruin somebody else's fun. As long as you don't do that, just do what's fun! Every day!
After all, you only have a VERY short time on this earth. If you aren't having fun, you are wasting the precious few days that you have been gifted. And once they are gone, you can never get them back.
If your fun can also improve someone else's happiness, or even better yet, make the world a better place, that is even more powerful and awesome! But even if you can't achieve that lofty goal every day, at least have fun!
After saying that nobody notices the bassist, I will say that I had a groupie hit on me big time. But if you also notice, I did not post in the Hot Chicks at Shows thread. 'Nuf said.
EDIT: Wait, did that thread get killed??
EDIT: Wait, did that thread get killed??
I’ll never get one of those. I know too many harmonica players that wear those.
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
Nobody can label anyone else a bassist. That's a something we have to admit, ourselves.
I can care less about all that stuff.
ive been all over the place with all these things. It’s not really stuff I waste time on.
I’ve owned cheap $200 basses up to basses that cost almost $6k if I had paid full price. My main player these days cost $1800. Ive owned a half a dozen basses that cost more than that and sold them all. Do I think the rediculously expensive basses like Foderas and Ritters are nice? Absolutely. Would I buy them, I could put them on a credit card but choose not to.
I’ve played plenty of originals gigs and some cover gigs so I’ve seen both sides of that and enjoy both for different reasons.
Is it about money? I live a more comfortable lifestyle working at the hospital four 11 hour shifts a week and married to a wonderful woman who happens to have a masters degree than the majority of “profession musicians” do being on the road away from their kids most of the year. I don’t like playing for free unless it’s a show I’d pay to go to if I wasn’t playing. But that’s more about not coming out of pocket so I can afford family vacations and stuff With my wife and daughters.
So who cares?
As for singing I suck at it but I’m trying to get better. Guitar player absolutely refuses to sing backup and our singer keeps pushing me to sing more. Might invest in some decent in ears to see if that'll help.
My take......if you play and get paid (and pay taxes on it), you're a professional musician. You can be full-time or part-time. Some earn a living from it. Some make a good supplemental income from it. Some make a marginal income from it. Hobby is playing for fun for no pay. Hobby is investing in something and not getting a return from it.
I played music for a living in my 20s. After realizing in my late 20s that I wanted to do things like, buy a house, have a wife and family, have a reliable car, etc. I made the decision to go to law school and now I'm an attorney who also plays the bass on weekends. Best of both worlds IMO. I will add, whenever people ask me what I do, I say both, and people seem to be much more interested and impressed with the musician part.
