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Hobbyists -vs- Real Musicians?
- Thread starter MultiScaleMale
- Start date
Hmmm. Good topic with a lot of good responses. I have expended a great deal of time, money and effort to support what truly can be defined as my hobby. I had hoped that in my semi-retirement years to come, once I retire from my career that certainly paid the bills, raised a family, paid alimony, etc., that part-time gigs doing interpretive cover material (based upon the skills of other band members) of music I enjoy doing as covers and being paid to do so would supplement Social Security and what ever part time, less stress job I could have. I have a specific definition for a musician...it is one who who will play what they are told/hired to play. Their abilities include the ability to read music, whatever format or a remarkable ear and mind skills that make them somewhat savant in this area. Then, there is the artist. The artist can be a musician, but not all musicians are artists. There are a lot of folks who would like to tell you a specific definition for an artist...but, that is kind of like telling you what the color purple tastes like. No “grape” jokes needed here. Those same folks , to me confuse the real definition of artist vs. employee. I listened to a short clip of Frank Zappa describing the nature of decision makers in the ‘60’s when this industry was building itself and how that changed when that executive (said decision-maker, art critic, clueless and selfish investment analyst youngster groomed to feed the money machine instead of stretching the art form)...So, hoping to save some younger bassists some time, money and energy...take some time to self-reflect. Determine which you are. Are you a musician or artist? Yes, you can be both...but, what is it that YOU really want. Why is this important? Because your fulfillment is important. Your ‘core’ fulfillment. I have known mine from the very beginning. If you love what has become your hobby because of the lack of money generating opportunities now, you are not alone. The money machine has grasped and strangled new art and new artists. We are in an era of “feed the machine or die”. Sorry for this for those who read and interpret this post as a negative. It is, for musical artists. There are so many incredible players, first (they may or may not have that “special” determined by “other” make money over art integrity marketing appeal) and performers (artists that not only are extraordinary on their instrument, music director skills to enhance their message) that we all are missing out on being in the public ear and eye and getting muted financial and existence recognition. In this day and age of influence by internet...you better watch your “six”...and for those w/o military jargon experience...
My recently fired guitarist used to tell us that he was the only professional musician in the band because he didn't have any day job and we did. His band pay was less than mine. I guess living in a shack and eating ramen is the mark of a "real professional."
It’s why we see some of what I would consider to be some of the most successful professional musicians as bassists serving as band/musical directors, producers, etc... folks like Michael League, Edgar Meyer and Tim Lefebvre come to mind. To me, that is what a musician at the very top of their game looks like. They’re not just influencing their own career, but are competent enough to lead others professionally as a musician and as a result are compensated for their broad skill sets.
Don't get a beret. Berets are only for jazz musicians.
I’m not a musician, i just play mostly to have something in common with my family. Over the years i’ve been roped into playing with non family groups but it’s mostly been groups with my dad and/or my brother.
As for the other reason so many people get into performance, the attention, i actually loath it and shy away from it so playing in public has become something of a cheap form of therapy that allows me to work on my desire to disappear when dropped into a crowd of strangers. Wifey has been the best help i’ve ever had for that, but playing out comes in a close second.
So am i a hobby guy, a weekend warrior, an other, or an unclassified?
As for the other reason so many people get into performance, the attention, i actually loath it and shy away from it so playing in public has become something of a cheap form of therapy that allows me to work on my desire to disappear when dropped into a crowd of strangers. Wifey has been the best help i’ve ever had for that, but playing out comes in a close second.
So am i a hobby guy, a weekend warrior, an other, or an unclassified?
For me it has nothing to do with money, profession, or the kind of tunes you play (covers or originals). "Musician" is a title you earn through your musical competence. I have played loads of gigs, most of them for money, and have performed both covers and originals. But I don't believe that I have fully earned the title "musician." To earn it, I feel I would need above all to have a fairly complete mastery of my instrument, to the point that I instinctively know where all the notes are and can play them all at will, as and when needed. It would help too if I had a stronger command of the musical language and theory used in the particular musical forms I play, such that I could more readily compose and improvise lines within those forms, if required. And I would feel even more confident of my claims to being a "musician" if I could sight read music better than I can currently can. I realise of course that this is a pretty demanding definition of "musician," one that would deny the title to many pop and rock players who are are conventionally called "professional musicians." But I am ok with that, not least because it would also mean assigning the title to the many many "amateurs" out there who do possess the requisite competence.
Everyone in my band works full time. We practice weekly, and play a gig once or twice a month. We've scheduled that time into our lives because we love to make music. We only play originals, and thats the way we want it. We love the music we make, but know that there's no chance of us making a living off of it. We have no desire to make truck loads of money from our music. We make enough to pay for our merch, and we recycle that money and buy more merch.
I love our local scene, and there are lots of great people. There are tons of people who do the "weekend warrior" thing. (I hate the term weekend warrior because in my mind it makes me think of dad cover bands doing hack jobs) I know a lot of people in my local scene, and most of them work full time, maybe even go to school on top of that.
Being a full time musician wouldn't pay my bills, and I know that. I'm happy seeing live local music, watching other bands grow and mature, and also making friends with like minded individuals. To me that's what it's all about...
Still not sure of whether or not I'm a musician based off of other people's standards though.
I love our local scene, and there are lots of great people. There are tons of people who do the "weekend warrior" thing. (I hate the term weekend warrior because in my mind it makes me think of dad cover bands doing hack jobs) I know a lot of people in my local scene, and most of them work full time, maybe even go to school on top of that.
Being a full time musician wouldn't pay my bills, and I know that. I'm happy seeing live local music, watching other bands grow and mature, and also making friends with like minded individuals. To me that's what it's all about...
Still not sure of whether or not I'm a musician based off of other people's standards though.
Not everyone does!
Biiiiiiig +1
That's why I play bass......because I enjoy it! 
That about sums it up!
Yep. Any other qualifiers seem to fall into elitism and/or insecurity.
In general, I like this break down, some semantics about noodling and the job in semi-pro, but it does a decent job of breaking down the level at which one might be involved in music at this time. That doesn't mean they aren't a musician, or haven't been at different levels at different points or may be in the future. The level of current involvement doesn't necessarily reflect on the level of talent, knowledge, commitment, or love for the art that one has.
While plumbing, I play a mean trombone...
... still looking for directions on the internet as to where the slide comes in.
I don't inflate my resume, why bother. Any highlights of my "career" were happy accidents. I've had some great experiences over the decades and ended up accomplishing a lot more than I ever expected to considering I never put much effort into it. After all, I had a day job and a family and couldn't tour.
After the usual run of short-lived and awful bands when I started out, I began working alongside local pros in the mid-80s. Most of the bands I've worked with since then were comprised of both professionals and non-professionals. Does that really make me more than a hobbyist? I don't know and don't care. I never made a lot of money but I treat it as self-employment, reporting my income and paying taxes on it.
I never call myself a professional, I will admit to calling myself "semi-pro" here at the forum many times but I'm sure plenty of people see me as just another weekend warrior.
Hung up on semantics? Yes! You have an instrument and play music.. you are a musician. Are all those kids in beginning band and orchestra considered musicians? They are not being paid, but they are practicing more than the average adult AND winning awards in competition. It's a state of action... not mind... to be a musician.
Definition of practicing.. actively engaged in a profession.
Actively engaged in a profession makes perfect.
Definition of practicing.. actively engaged in a profession.
Actively engaged in a profession makes perfect.
For me Jazz fusion and Classical music is pretty much at the top of the food chain.
They play cover. Or they play something someone else wrote ( literally on a music sheet )
It takes a lot of skill and dedication to play music like they do
A lot more to be a director in front of an orchestra
I did go that route for a few years. I even got a degree music playing classical music.
I consider myself a musician with a bass. I love music and it brings me some joy and I love to surpass myself.
Am I less of a musician or pro just because I don't play gig anymore ? I don't think so.
I also don,t think playing gig and getting money out of it is a hobby. An hobby is doing something for fun, once you get money out of it, it is more of a part time job.
They play cover. Or they play something someone else wrote ( literally on a music sheet )
It takes a lot of skill and dedication to play music like they do
A lot more to be a director in front of an orchestra
I did go that route for a few years. I even got a degree music playing classical music.
I consider myself a musician with a bass. I love music and it brings me some joy and I love to surpass myself.
Am I less of a musician or pro just because I don't play gig anymore ? I don't think so.
I also don,t think playing gig and getting money out of it is a hobby. An hobby is doing something for fun, once you get money out of it, it is more of a part time job.
I agree with most of what you said. However, I’m going to take issue with the thought we take a back seat. We are the most important ingredient that makes whatever is going on up front sound logical. We are the musical reconciliation of entity. And understanding that has kept me working as a bassist for over 50 years.
Frankly, I don’t need direct validation from the audience. I’m more than validated enough from the musicians I work with, that can do their job as well as they can not not having to worry about me doing something that will make them sound stupid.
And this also shows up on how the audience responds. I know if I do my job well, the others will sell the the finished product. This works.
Are we talking “real musician” as a profession/occupation, or as an identity? I think that if you have a engaging relationship with music (understanding theory, history, cultural impact, emotional manipulation, etc), that is to say you really understand what music is, then you are a musician as part of your identity. It not so much what you do as much as what you’re made of. Meanwhile, there’s people out there that don’t know the name of a single note or what an interval is, major vs minor etc but made a good chunk of change as a “ real musician” because they sang a catchy melody or looked cool holding a bass at the right moment lol. I’m no prodigy but I couldn’t stop playing if I wanted to, so I count myself a musician.
I agree with all of this except the back seat thing. Unless they start putting steering wheels in the back seat then yeah I guess I'd agree then.
Well, I was a real musician sax man in the 70s through the 80s.
Got tired of the road life.
Became a lawyer.
Picked up a hobby playing bass getting paid real money. But, I consider myself a fake because I don't gig five nights a week. Lol
Got tired of the road life.
Became a lawyer.
Picked up a hobby playing bass getting paid real money. But, I consider myself a fake because I don't gig five nights a week. Lol
