Double Bass Horrible gigs where you can't hear a thing.

[Peter Wood]

Had the privilege of playing with a jazz/blues band last night at a local pub. I've played here before and it's always too loud. I gave up going to jam sessions there because the volume was always too high. Loud drummers. Deaf sound techs. I had filtered earplugs in but my ears were still ringing afterwards. Here's a vid of our first song.

Moderator note: video removed by request of OP. The thread can still continue, as the general subject is one most have encountered and know all too well.

I've got an Ehrlund contact mic and preamp and I could barely get enough gain to hear myself. I was playing through a (backline) Ashdown Mag300 and 4x10. The input gain and the master vol were literally at 3 o'clock but still not loud enough to be heard clearly. Then it started feeding back a bit. Big props to Ehrlund. Their feedback switch worked very well, but it was still almost inaudible. I think EQ in the PA desk was the issue.

Curious to hear what other people do in these circumstances.

 

[Don Hergert]

I couldn't view the vid but from your description it sounds like the volume level was literally dangerous.

Are your ears still ringing now? If so, I hope they get better.

Permanent hearing damage is a real thing. At 70 now and still wanting to enjoy making music, I wish I had started taking better care of my hearing about 40 years ago. I'm lucky my preferred genre is totally acoustic, but there are still loud instruments that I prefer not to be next to.

 

[Papageno]

Stop playing there ?

 

[Geepers]

Curious to hear what other people do in these circumstances.

I just refuse to be put in them, period. I already have permanent tinnitus from drumming unprotected in rock bands in my younger days and definitely don’t want to make that worse. These days I’d rather just accompany an acoustic guitarist in the corner of a cafe than play the volume whack-a-mole game on stage.

 

[Wasnex]

I used to wear custom ER20s for most gigs. Yes, they degrade the sound, but that is the price you pay to protect your hearing.

If you wore ear plugs and your ears were still ringing after the gig, I assume it was stupid loud, which is something I try to avoid.

It's pretty hard to get a double bass stupid loud with a contact pickup. I was really impressed with the tone of the Ehrlund, but it has limited gain before feedback. If I had to play a stupid loud gig, I believe something like a Krivo magnetic pickup would give the upright more gain before feedback. There are other things you can do as well. The easiest solution for sufficient gain before feedback would be to play bass guitar or electric upright.

It's been awhile since I played through an ABM, but it's not the amp I would choose for upright. To be honest I had a hard time dialing in a good sound with the ABM driving a really nice Bergantino cab. If the cab was 8 ohms, my guess is the Mag 300 is only going to deliver 150W. That may not be enough for stupid loud, even with an extremely efficient 410.

 

[Martin Beer]

[QUOTE="Peter Wood, post: 28889588,



Curious to hear what other people do in these circumstances.
[/QUOTE]

Bridge piezo, high-pass filter and foam f-hole plugs has been my recipe for difficult loud bar gigs. That or electric bass!
Any contact pickup attached to the soundboard is going to be a lot more "live" to stage sounds than a bridge pickup.

 

[HeavyJazz]

For that unfortunate scenario, just play muted ghost notes all night. They won't know the difference.

 

[vilshofen]

Peter this probably means everyone else on stage is already at least partially deaf.
I would classify this as hopeless.
Run for the trees.

 

[ole Jason]

Does anyone want to hear jazz/blues so loud it makes your ears ring? That is utterly bizarre.

 

[fdeck]

Earplugs and Fender. I have an unofficial "rider" that gives me the discretion to play electric bass if the conditions are inappropriate for upright. This includes high volume levels, but also, any outdoor gig that doesn't control for appropriate working conditions.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Had the privilege of playing with a jazz/blues band last night at a local pub. I've played here before and it's always too loud. I gave up going to jam sessions there because the volume was always too high. Loud drummers. Deaf sound techs. I had filtered earplugs in but my ears were still ringing afterwards. Here's a vid of our first song.



I've got an Ehrlund contact mic and preamp and I could barely get enough gain to hear myself. I was playing through a (backline) Ashdown Mag300 and 4x10. The input gain and the master vol were literally at 3 o'clock but still not loud enough to be heard clearly. Then it started feeding back a bit. Big props to Ehrlund. Their feedback switch worked very well, but it was still almost inaudible. I think EQ in the PA desk was the issue.

Curious to hear what other people do in these circumstances.

I have a headphone out on my amps and a good set of earbuds. It’s not the greatest but will do in a pinch. Certainly not as good as fellow musician that know how to “ play in concert” (a lost art)} with each other.

One other suggestion is to host your low mids on your EQ pull back the low bass you should be able to hear yourself in the mix better. You may need to bump your volume a tad

 

[jmlee]

I have the joy of having had Meniere's disease which damaged my hearing, especially in my left ear, and has left me with persistent tinnitus and pitch-shifting problems which are exacerbated by loud noises—particularly in a frequency range which seems to correspond to crash cymbals. A while back I did a gig on upright with a big band in a large bar, one of the better settings for touring acts in the city. I had done a couple of other gigs with that band there and things had been manageable with the band set up on the floor *in front* of the stage due to its size. On this last gig, though, I arrived to find the band set up *on the stage* with me crammed in a corner in the back between the (stupidly loud) drummer and the guitar player. By the end of the night my tinnitus was so bad that I could barely distinguish pitch and was playing purely from muscle memory. On the way home, I could hardly hear the radio and it was days before my hearing had more or less recovered toward their usual, crappy function, but the tinnitus was still way over baseline. The problem persisted enough that I had to resign from my usual big band's rhythm section and set aside my (classical) piano lessons. Over a couple of months now, my hearing has largely recovered to my pre-gig function, but my regular big band has taken on a replacement and I've lost my resident chair there. I'm back to piano, though, and am able to play in the pit band for the musical at my daughter's school. I hope to eventually get back to big band playing which I love. The fact is that my hearing was injured—at least stunned—by that gig and it's dismaying that the band paid so little attention to where I was placed. The horns were graciously spread to best effect for them while the rhythm section was jammed into a clearly too-tight space. For the record, I use high quality ear plugs, but if I use more than about 7 dB attenuation in my one good ear, I simply can't intonate well or sort out my expression with the rest of the band. So that's what I was using and I remain p***ed with that band's leadership.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I couldn't view the vid but from your description it sounds like the volume level was literally dangerous.

Are your ears still ringing now? If so, I hope they get better.

Permanent hearing damage is a real thing. At 70 now and still wanting to enjoy making music, I wish I had started taking better care of my hearing about 40 years ago. I'm lucky my preferred genre is totally acoustic, but there are still loud instruments that I prefer not to be next to.

Hearing aids for me after a lifetime of loud stages and woodworking shops.

I, too, wish it weren't necessary. But, life choices have consequences. Thank goodness the hearing aids have taken away most of the tinnitus that used to plague me.

 

[ILIA]

For that unfortunate scenario, just play muted ghost notes all night. They won't know the difference.

Yup. I've been in the same situation as the OP. The crowd wouldn't know and they wouldn't care if they heard the bass or not.

Had the privilege of playing with a jazz/blues band last night at a local pub. I've played here before and it's always too loud. I gave up going to jam sessions there because the volume was always too high. Loud drummers. Deaf sound techs. I had filtered earplugs in but my ears were still ringing afterwards. Here's a vid of our first song.



I've got an Ehrlund contact mic and preamp and I could barely get enough gain to hear myself. I was playing through a (backline) Ashdown Mag300 and 4x10. The input gain and the master vol were literally at 3 o'clock but still not loud enough to be heard clearly. Then it started feeding back a bit. Big props to Ehrlund. Their feedback switch worked very well, but it was still almost inaudible. I think EQ in the PA desk was the issue.

Curious to hear what other people do in these circumstances.

Ever since that first experience in a loud blues bar, with my upright, I avoid any place that thinks that louder is better.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Back in the time when big bands like Buddy Rich's and Maynard Ferguson's were popular, bands like that I played in were stupidly loud. That had become the accepted level for bands of that type. BG in those groups was the standard solution. I tried DB briefly but soon gave up. That's what I and other bassists had played in groups of that size up until then, even ampless(!), but it was no longer practical. It seems to me now that, for whatever reason, music is louder in most circumstances, live or recorded. Are we all hearing damaged? I don't know, but I do know I'm much more careful to use ear protection now. Back in those days it was necessary and smart in certain somewhat rare performing situations. Now it's more or less all the time if you have any hearing damage or want to be really safe.

 

[sean_on_bass]

you gotta say something to the sound engineer and/or your bandmates to fix the sound issue.

 

[fdeck]

I think construction of venues is part of the problem: High ceilings and no damping material. I've been in places where the noise was above a comfortable gig level before the band even started playing.

Also, I've noticed a lot of players on amplified instruments, gradually inching up their volume. I've disciplined myself to set my volume once at the start of a gig, and leave it alone unless I've really gotten it wrong.

 

[Don Hergert]

... players on amplified instruments, gradually inching up their volume ...

In bluegrass circles, we often call that an amp-war. It's the primary reason amps are discouraged in bluegrass jams. With amps, the combination of amp-inexperience and hearing-challenge can create a huge mess.

 

[Ketbass]

Does anyone want to hear jazz/blues so loud it makes your ears ring? That is utterly bizarre.

Best comment so far. When I read the title I first assumed it was about a bad stage/sound guy. Just played 2 of those recently…

 

[james condino]

My solution for struggling to hear myself on stage!