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Double Bass Horrible gigs where you can't hear a thing.
- Thread starter Peter Wood
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buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I had a gig a few years ago where the stage sound was a big blur. I kept one foot on the kick drum peg so I could at least feel the beat - got me through a miserable gig.
I have two solutions:
- If a band (or drummer, or guitarist) plays so loud that I cannot hear myself, I don’t play with them again.
- I turn the volume off on my bass, and pretend I am playing the most complicated bass line ever invented. When they cannot hear it, they usually turn down.
When playing the doublebass with amplified instruments, best to use piezo rather than contact mics. That is why I still keep my not so great sounding BP-100. Second you need an HPF. If your bass is carved then it is even harder. You need a plywood bass and possibly a band to keep it from oscillating bad. Some guys even use magnetic pickups. Or get an EUB or just play an electric. Rather than runing the volume and gain up , point the speakers to your ears with out creating feedback. On top of that protect your ears.
I listened to the video with headphones and you need to boost the mids and high mids on your EQ. Looks you a smiley curve EQ. I can hear the slap on the board louder. You are competing with the bass drum
I listened to the video with headphones and you need to boost the mids and high mids on your EQ. Looks you a smiley curve EQ. I can hear the slap on the board louder. You are competing with the bass drum
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Thanks everyone. My band has all agreed it was awful. The sound-guy... like most I've met is surely deaf. Our gt player has vertigo issues so is keen to keep the vol down anyway... and he's deaf in one ear too. LOL. But yeah. I'll have my fretless in the car next time we go anywhere near that place. My ears tend to ring a bit anyway and I've always used plugs when I play with a drummer. I think it's old age and genetics. I'm 51. I like the idea of pretending play complex lines. 
Re the Ehrlund. I've found it much more feedback proof than any of the piezo PUs I've had in the past. Actually, I hate piezos on upright bass. I can't use mag PUs because I've got Eva Pirazo synthetic strings. I'll know to take my own amp next time.
Re the Ehrlund. I've found it much more feedback proof than any of the piezo PUs I've had in the past. Actually, I hate piezos on upright bass. I can't use mag PUs because I've got Eva Pirazo synthetic strings. I'll know to take my own amp next time.
+1 on the BG comments - if the band (as a whole) decide that they want to be loud then a BG is designed for that. I listened to the video and the bass is (as the OP says) almost inaudible - just a bottom end "presence" but no definition. IMO some of the problem is with the drummer. Not bad as such, but heavy on the snare and no attempt made to dial it back to create a more "acoustic" feel.
[Edited: Maybe I'm being a bit unfair on drummer - often engineers crank snares way too loud from the PA, so that's just as likely an explanation]
[Edited: Maybe I'm being a bit unfair on drummer - often engineers crank snares way too loud from the PA, so that's just as likely an explanation]
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Curiously, our drummer could hear me loud and clear and reported that I played an awesome gig. So maybe hearing is overrated.
Yeah, good luck with that. Try it and let us know how that works out for you. I use ear plugs and play by muscle memory. And I avoid playing in that situation again.
It works great and is standard practice during a sound check. Who hurt you?
I played a show for a national act years ago where the act's musical director got into a shouting match with the venue sound guy over some issue they disagreed about. When egos get involved in these situations it's unfortunate and a big waste of time but it does happen.
That's kind of harsh. I've been in a TON of situations, playing with "in the idiom" acoustic jazz trios, quartets, quintets, and sextets (meaning the jazz genres largely predating synths, samples, midi, and amplification in general except for hollowbody guitars... late 40s through mid-60s) at "jazz festivals" where headliners were folks like Gino Vanelli, Boz Scaggs, and others who, while great musicians in their own right and have signs of some jazz influence in their music, aren't exactly considered jazz artists. While some of the sound crew folks at some of the festivals are wonderful, a LOT of them are much more comfortable with producing rock shows, and always manage to, for instance, take our drummers beautiful tiny Gretsch kick drum, tuned to act more like a floor tom in the mix than the typical kick-to-the-chest bass drum in a rock kit... and turn it into just that; a cannon that hurts every time he touches it. Trying to explain to some sound guys what exactly a small jazz group is supposed to sound like is an exercise in futility; I'm ALWAYS very nice about it and do my best, but there are simply times when it's a totally lost cause. For some sound outfits, the goal seems to be, "What's the maximum amount of sound I can get out of my gear, how can I make every group sound the same, and there must be SOME way to get the monitors even louder..."
Drives me nuts. I am NOT saying this describes all sound folks; it doesn't. I've been blessed with some absolutely outstanding folks who truly get it. Just not always, and not enough for it to be the norm.
I'm at the point in my career where if it's too loud, I'm not playing. I don't enjoy playing with ear plugs, and I play for the enjoyment and love of it.... so... if ear plugs are required, I'm out, too.
Just saying, the first thing to do is work it out during sound check. If that fails, sure, move to the nuclear option. I've never had a sound guy that would refuse to adjust the stage mix when requested. I've never had a band mate refuse to help remediate a stage sound issue either.
Exactly. Similarly with the guys who'll set up for a 16 piece big band in a medium size ballroom dance facility, or national guard armory, or the like, and mike up the drum set and put a microphone on every horn. Dude, this instrumentation was invented to fill the Roseland Ballroom with 5000 dancers and no PA except a vocal mike! give us one mike for solos in each section, and one for the singer and the announcements, and we're good. We can balance ourselves!
And this is why I said that "talking to the sound check guy" is going to be an exercise in futility 99% of the time, because 99.9% of them have NO CLUE about anything but ear-bleeding-loud rock bands, and very few of them are even willing to listen to information about anything else.
Wow, where do you live, and can I get gigs with those sound men and bands? That's pretty much the diametrical opposite of my experience and I've been doing this for 45 years.
On the bluegrass side, almost all of the festival stage FOH sound people I've worked with have been pretty accommodating. Really no serious exceptions. Although I have to say most bluegrass bands don't ask a lot. Some bands, like our Gospel band, even try to go without monitors, since in practice we polish our acoustic sound and volume balance with voices extremely carefully, so if monitors are used at all they are just barely noticeable.
Our band does a fair amount of church gigs too, and once again the norm is pretty helpful sound people. Most sound teams in smaller churches are volunteer and their available equipment can be limited, so there's that; bigger churches tend to have a sound budget that supports pretty major programming.
But mostly all our band needs is stand mics; my DB is the only instrument that uses it's own electronics, typically I use a mounted mic for this kind of more sensitive volume gig, and for that I just hand the sound guy a wireless receiver and he can manage it from there.
I have had some ego run-ins with music program directors in churches, but that can be a very high-stress job and we can understand the pressure those people can be under. Our band tends to try to keep a pretty low-profile with few demands, just do the job with as little special attention from program directors as possible. Our special attention is with the audience and the music.
We do try to remember to publicly thank the sound people for all of our gigs... They deserve the thanks and we want them to know we appreciate them. There was a time when we did our own sound; it's a tough job when combined with getting the band going too. I in particular appreciate not having to worry about that anymore.
Our band does a fair amount of church gigs too, and once again the norm is pretty helpful sound people. Most sound teams in smaller churches are volunteer and their available equipment can be limited, so there's that; bigger churches tend to have a sound budget that supports pretty major programming.
But mostly all our band needs is stand mics; my DB is the only instrument that uses it's own electronics, typically I use a mounted mic for this kind of more sensitive volume gig, and for that I just hand the sound guy a wireless receiver and he can manage it from there.
I have had some ego run-ins with music program directors in churches, but that can be a very high-stress job and we can understand the pressure those people can be under. Our band tends to try to keep a pretty low-profile with few demands, just do the job with as little special attention from program directors as possible. Our special attention is with the audience and the music.
We do try to remember to publicly thank the sound people for all of our gigs... They deserve the thanks and we want them to know we appreciate them. There was a time when we did our own sound; it's a tough job when combined with getting the band going too. I in particular appreciate not having to worry about that anymore.
I ALWAYS chat up the soundguy before big shows, bring him a beer / smoke, and tip him a $20 in advance, letting him know there is another after the show if I have a good night and like how I am in the mix. You'd be amazed how much a difference it makes.
There are any number of stories of good and bad experiences with sound people. IMO the main issue often is that the person doesn't know about the style of music being played or thinks they do but don't. This can lead to ego issues and turf battles that help nobody. It can work both ways. I've had band members demand a monitor mix that messes with miking and feedback and sound people who will insist on a mix that may be fine for one kind of music but not what's being played. I can only assume that it's human nature since it shows up in so many aspects of life. Also, the age and experience of the sound person is a factor: what sort of music they grew up with and listen to, etc. JMO
I use the EAP into RedEye twin preamp before the amp and it will give you a great deal more headroom but I’d use a Gage Life Line or EB on your gig.
As bass players, electric and upright, we always have to boost our mids and highs and that goes for any gig. My chief complaint when I see other players play is that they always sound muddy. Often we EQ like we here our fav players on a recording and that never translates to all the crappy rooms we play.
This has been an issue with more bandmates than I might have thought beforehand. Guitar players seem especially adamant about the sound they want onstage, from themselves and the rest of the group. It's going to sound less than great out front, but it can be a battle to convince them, and with some impossible. I work with a sax player who goes out front and listens to individual instruments and the overall mix, especially if there's no FOH. He's quite good at getting a good sound, and sometimes the variation from what we hear on the stand can be pretty amazing.
