How big a rig do I need?

[GaryM]

I'm looking to buy an amp and cab. Currently I've been using whatever was provided by the venue, or hiring or borrowing an amp, and the results have been pretty varied.

The band I'm in plays heavy metal (Iron Maiden, Whitesnake, etc) and there's one guitar player who plays through a 100W Peavey Valveking head and a 4 x 12" cab. He usually manages not to turn up to 11 though. The drummer is pretty loud but can control himself.

I've had the following experiences with amps:

- Playing in a small club through a 150W Carlsbro Mark I head and a 1 x 15" cab with no PA support. Amp sounded terrible and eventually the cab died.

- Playing in a small pub through a Laney RB7 combo (150W through 2 x 10" speakers without the extension cab I think) without PA support. I could hardly hear myself.

- Playing in a small pub through a 150W Peavy Mark III head and an unbranded 4 x 12" cab without PA support. I sounded great (though not enough high-end).

- Playing in various venues where I'm going through a little 1 x 10" combo that I can't hear but it doesn't matter cause there's a decent PA.

Our drummer now has a PA system with subs so the only gigs where my amp needs to be heard by the audience will be the small pub gigs.

So, bearing all this in mind, what size of rig should I be looking at? I've used a Peavey 410 TVX for rehearsing and I like the sound of it so I was thinking about getting a Warwick Profet 3.2 head (300W at 4 Ohms) and a Peavey 210 TVX (175W, 4 Ohms) which goes for about £350 new (though I am keeping an eye out for used gear). I'm worried though that if that isn't loud enough it won't be easy to upgrade, and I'll kick myself for not getting that head with a Peavey 410 TVX (350W, 4 Ohms) which would only be £50 more, or getting the 4 x 10" plus the Warwick Profet 5.1 (500W at 4 Ohms) which would bring the total to £500. On the other hand I don't want to spend more than I need to, or have a cab that's a lot bigger than I need. Any suggestions? Thanks.

 

[Ric5]

I use an ampeg b2r with 4x10s and when I Gig I usually get pa support.

 

[fretlessman71]

Here's my personal rule of thumb: Headroom is our friend; ohms are the enemy.

If you need your amp to compete with guitar amps that are pretty loud and crunchy, IME, anything less than 400w@4ohms is going to frustrate you.

If you're relying on your amp to give you your "sound", it's going to be expensive quick. However, if you can get your tone BEFORE you send it to the amp, you can get by with a loud, clean, simple amp like a Peavey Firebass 700. My amp (don't have it anymore) had a 2x10 and a 1x15, and when run together it was a 700 watt, 2 ohm rig. FAR louder than my guitarist could get.

You might think more about a "strategy" than a particular model. How do you want to get your tone, and then how do you want to get it heard?

 

[JimmyM]

300-400w should cover you.

 

[GaryM]

If you're relying on your amp to give you your "sound"...

I suspect "my sound" is mostly the sound of my bass because whatever amp I'm using I always set the EQ "flat" (that is, to zero, which may not be that flat) and it sounds good to me (might be to do with the active pups I have). I don't use any effects and I'm not looking for the sound of a valve [tube] amp.

However, if you can get your tone BEFORE you send it to the amp, you can get by with a loud, clean, simple amp like a Peavey Firebass 700. My amp (don't have it anymore) had a 2x10 and a 1x15, and when run together it was a 700 watt, 2 ohm rig. FAR louder than my guitarist could get.

You might think more about a "strategy" than a particular model. How do you want to get your tone, and then how do you want to get it heard?

Yeah I think a nice simple Peavey / Warwick / etc will be the way to go for me. I'm quite happy for the audience to hear me out the PA though, rather than needing my amp to do all the work, that's why I was hoping to get away with a smaller rig. Looks like I'll just have to bite the bullet and get the big rig though (well, the biggest rig I can fit in the guitarist's car).

 

[bwv1013]

i would go as big as you can, buy as much amp as you can afford. if you never have to turn it past 3, more power to you. plunk down as much as you can now and hopefully set yourself up for good.

 

[chadds]

2x10 is not enough.

 

[Lowbrow]

How do you think he's do with two 8-ohm Avatar b212 cabs (or one 4-ohm) and a Markbass LMII head? Sounds like the ticket according to your descriptors.
(My current fantasy rig -- BTW, at least the speakers are.)

 

[GaryM]

How do you think he's do with two 8-ohm Avatar b212 cabs (or one 4-ohm) and a Markbass LMII head? Sounds like the ticket according to your descriptors.
(My current fantasy rig -- BTW, at least the speakers are.)

Mmm, sounds like a great rig but that head costs as much as I was going to spend on the Warwick head and the Peavey 4x10". Also, can you even get Avatar cabs in the UK? I've never seen one...

 

[Bass_Pounder]

i would go as big as you can, buy as much amp as you can afford. if you never have to turn it past 3, more power to you. plunk down as much as you can now and hopefully set yourself up for good.

I play the same type of material, and my guitard uses a Peavey 5150 with a 4X12. Drummer has a huge double bass Pearl kit, and bangs the hell out of it.

Just for practice, I use a 1X18 with a 4X10 powered by Carver PM350 (450 watts to each cab @ 4ohms). I never have to open it all the way up, but it's nice to have headroom.

For gigs I use either my B1500 or A Sansamp RBI/Carvin DCM1500 poweramp setup into a Mesa 2X15 and a Avatar 2X12.

Once agin, I never have to max it, and most times play only on "3".

It's a personal preference, but I would rather have a huge rig and run it on "idle", than have a small rig that I am constantly pushing to the limit.

 

[rodl2005]

Get at least 350w Solid state & enough spkrs to move a lotta air.
Either 2x 410's a 4x10 & a 1x15" (IMO the best way to go as U can use Just the 4x10 Or just the 1x15 for smaller gigs) Just make sure the impedance(ohms) of the cabs combined (eg. 2 x 8 ohm cabs used together = 4 ohms) equals what ur amp's lowest rating allows &
therefore the highest amount of power available from ur amp.
-If -say -your new amp runs down to 2 ohms U can get cabs to match that....MOST S.S. amps run at say 250w @ 8ohms or 500w @ 4 ohms-&

 

[butchblack]

How do you think he's do with two 8-ohm Avatar b212 cabs (or one 4-ohm) and a Markbass LMII head? Sounds like the ticket according to your descriptors.
(My current fantasy rig -- BTW, at least the speakers are.)

The combo sounds nice, but he's in the UK so I don't think he can get Avatar over there

 

[pedroims]

a shutle 6.0 or mark bass III + 2 aguilar 112 will be enough. I just got the suttle + 2 DB112, that is 600 @ 4 ohms and it is good enough to deal with a guitar, keyboard, singer, drummer.

 

[staindbass]

i worry about the part where you say " i cant hear myself but it doesnt matter cuz its going thru the pa.". if i could record your band with the system you mentioned, and one that fits the bill, i bet there would be a difference. it sounds like you wish to equal the 4x12 100w. after all if you dont, you still wont hear yourself clearly over the guitar. if you have a 350w head, i think you would need a 2x15, or two 4x10 cabs to stay in the race. we would all like to get the smallest rig possible, but always remember to buy more than you need at the moment. that will save you from buying another rig in 2 yrs. back in the day i wanted a new bass, i got a second job. this stuff aint cheap. but once you get it, you will love it. johnny a

 

[GaryM]

i worry about the part where you say " i cant hear myself but it doesnt matter cuz its going thru the pa.".

What I meant was that I'd played gigs where my bass was plugged into a DI box that went to the PA and also to a little Behringer combo, and in gigs like these the combo amp was useless because the audience were hearing me through the FOH PA speakers and I was hearing myself through the PA monitors.

To staindbass, rodl2005 and Bass_Pounder - I appreciate your suggestions but getting two 4 x 10s or something else that size is out of the question I'm afraid. The place we rehearse has a 4x10 + 1x15 rig that sounds great but I've no way of moving that much gear.

Also, if a 150W head and a 4x12 cab was fine, but it would be good to have a bit more volume available if needed, do I really need to make the jump to two 4 x 10s or a 4 x 10 and a 1 x 15? It just seems a lot for what will be a stage monitor in all but the smallest of gigs.

 

[LarryO]

as much power as you can afford (with good tone) 300 watts I think is a minimum but there is the tube watts vs ss watts debate which you have to figure out yourself.......... and a 4x10 or 1x15 + 2x10 or 2 x 15 ...........basicly it doesn't matter.. play what you got, buy what you want and keep a passion for the music you are playing and NO ONE can tell you you're doing it wrong

 

[Bass_Pounder]

Also, if a 150W head and a 4x12 cab was fine, but it would be good to have a bit more volume available if needed, do I really need to make the jump to two 4 x 10s or a 4 x 10 and a 1 x 15? It just seems a lot for what will be a stage monitor in all but the smallest of gigs.

Like I said before, it's a matter of personal preference.

If that volume level worked for you before, and you were happy, then that should be all you need.

I myself am only "happy" if I can walk to the other end of the stage or stand in front of the guitarist amp and still not only hear myself, but also feel every note vibrate through the stage floor.

 

[Gruntollio Bass]

For Metal I wouldn't want to play with anything less than a 400W amp and at least a 410 cab rated to match.

I play metal and generally go to each gig with either my 810XLT or my 2 x 410's............or all of them if outdoors!!!!

 

[chadds]

a shutle 6.0 or mark bass III + 2 aguilar 112 will be enough. I just got the suttle + 2 DB112, that is 600 @ 4 ohms and it is good enough to deal with a guitar, keyboard, singer, drummer.

May I humbly disagree. Your group sounds like it plays at a volume that you all adhere to. I've played a bar with a 30 watt 8" SWR LA-8. It was perfect because the instrumentation and musicians played at that volume. Yes we filled the bar with music.
From the OP's post I would say that he is coping with larger volume and dynamics and loud players. That many guitar watts and 4x12s is a bit much and add a wailing drummer. Whew!
Your rig while perfect for you would be inadequate for him IMHO. Now if one is not preserving their tone and just getting burp and distortion then he could use anything. Now when these other bassists say they turn up to three and could blow away their band that's the ticket!
4x10s and 300-500 watts. Minimum. A 15 watt class A, Bruno or Fuchs 1x12 guitar combo will toast most big Bass rigs. So get the most you can afford and some wide speaker coverage like 4x10s.

 

[Lowbrow]

The combo sounds nice, but he's in the UK so I don't think he can get Avatar over there

Bummer. More for me.