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How big, how small?

#21
15/6 ... a 2-way cab using an Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF & a dedicated midrange, almost always either an 18Sound 6ND410 or Faital Pro M5N8-80.

Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF Speakers - Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF lightweight neodymium woofer. The Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF is a 15 inch 8 ohm lightweight speaker with extended Xmax. The Eminence Kappa Lite 3015LF 15inch speakers are rated at 450 watts RMS. Em

Eighteen Sound Speakers - Eighteen Sound 6ND410 - Eighteen Sound 6ND410 6.5" midrange speaker has a lightweight neodymium magnet and is 102dB SPL. Eighteen Sound 6ND410 6.5" midrange speakers are available here. 18 Sound speaker components.

Faital Pro M5N8-80 5" Speakers - Faital Pro M5N8-80 5" midrange speaker that has a lightweight neodymium magnet. Faital Pro M5N8-80 80 watt 5" high efficiency of 99dB SPL for all midrange applications.

15/6/1 ... as the 15/6, but a 3-way, adding a high frequency driver/tweeter.

12/6 & 12/6/1 ... as above, but employing the Eminence Kappa Lite 3012LF rather than the 15.

Eminence KappaLite 3012LF speakers - Eminence KappaLite 3012LF 12" neodymium speaker. Eminence KappaLite 3012LF lightweight neodymium speakers.
 
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#23
I'll weigh in on this, I guess.

I could do gigs with a 210 cab. But there would be plenty of gigs where it wouldn't be enough. I could push it hard enough to play a summer patio gig at the local bar/restaurant. My drummer plays cajons, so he's not too loud. But when I have a big show, opening for a touring act in Madison or Minneapolis, not so much. Even worse would be the outdoor festival type shows. For that I would need a second 210 at least.

Right now I'm rocking a 212 and, when needed, a 210 on top.

Ultimately I would scrap them both for a pair of greenboy-designed 12/6 cabs, but as I'm currently a man of leisure (unemployed) that plan is on hold.

FullSizeRender.jpg
 
#24
garya said:
...I have trio with a Bonham type drummer and a Jimmy Page/Beck type guitarist. He uses a half Marshall stack/100 watt for medium to big gigs and a 50 watt amp for smaller gigs and rehearsal. I was thinking/hoping to go two 10" for small gigs and double up for big gigs. 500 watt amp
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A 50 watt guitar amp cranked is very loud, especially if it is into 210s. Note that 100 watts is not twice the potential loudness of 50 watts, 500 watts is twice "as loud" as 50 watts, a factor of ten. It's the speakers, not the watts that really matter with the guitarist's rigs you've described.

I think the 500 watt @ 4 ohm amp head is the minimum. Given that, even a really top quality 8 ohm 210 will not really be enough with a loud guitarist, hard hitting drummer, and PA for vocals, IMHO. Having two 210 cabinets is better and sounds like a good way to find out how often a single 210 will do it for you.

Stacking two 210s on end in a array is much superior to a cube format 410, IMHO, given equivalent drivers and cabinet geometry.

210array.jpg



Of course my idea of a reasonable rig for a loud band is 800 watts @ 4 ohms and 215 fEARfuls:

fEARfuls%201%20smaller.jpg
 
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#25
moody said:
In another thread I have tried to define exactly how many watts I am using - as I didn't really know. I can confirm that through a single efficient 15" speaker. I have enough for a loud rock band in rehearsal with 45watts solid state.
It would be enough on stage in a pinch but would have nothing at all in reserve.
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The number of significant variables is..... hmmmm, let's see. How loud is loud, what the space is loud is loud in, what the rest of the ensemble uses for amplification, your tone, their tone, how many vocalists, how many guitarists, how many keyboards, how many percussionists/drummers, horns, PA, style of music, how narrowly each instrument's tone is EQ'd...the vocal instrumental balance, your preference for how loud you want to be, style of each persons playing, thickness of texture, etc.

I can confirm that I have never found a efficient 15" or two 15" (JBL D-140F) with a 45 watt tube amp (or an tube 80 watt amp) to be enough for a loud band. My loud must be louder than your loud. Significant number of variables...oh, it's rehearsal! :D
 
#26
Jim Carr said:
The number of significant variables is..... hmmmm, let's see. How loud is loud, what the space is loud is loud in, what the rest of the ensemble uses for amplification, your tone, their tone, how many vocalists, how many guitarists, how many keyboards, how many percussionists/drummers, horns, PA, style of music, how narrowly each instrument's tone is EQ'd...the vocal instrumental balance, your preference for how loud you want to be, style of each persons playing, thickness of texture, etc.

I can confirm that I have never found a efficient 15" or two 15" (JBL D-140F) with a 45 watt tube amp (or an tube 80 watt amp) to be enough for a loud band. My loud must be louder than your loud. Significant number of variables...oh, it's rehearsal! :D
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Yes, your loud is louder than my loud. But my loud is still loud! :D

I wouldn't willingly take the amp I use at rehearsals to a gig but it would manage it in an emergency situation.
 
#29
Around here, when folks say 15/6/1, or 12/6, or the like, they're usually referring to specific cabinets called "Fearful", which were designed by a fellow called "Greenboy". These cabinets have a strong following here, and for a good reason - given enough power, they consistently outperform much larger cabinets. They're louder and they sound great. However, the success of the Greenboy cabinets depends on using the exact drivers in cabinets built to a very specific design, and employing just the right crossovers.

Just more grist for the mill. Green boys aren't cheap, but for many, they're worth it.
 
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#31
Raf Seibert said:
Around here, when folks say 15/6/1, or 12/6, or the like, they're usually referring to specific cabinets called "Fearful", which were designed by a fellow called "Greenboy". These cabinets have a strong following here, and for a good reason - given enough power, they consistently outperform much larger cabinets. They're louder and they sound great. However, the success of the Greenboy cabinets depends on using the exact drivers in cabinets built to a very specific design, and employing just the right crossovers.

Just more grist for the mill. Green boys aren't cheap, but for many, they're worth it.
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To a large degree, yes. But other builders have their versions. AudioKinesis, Baer, & LDS, for example. Likely others?
 
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#35
BigBobbyBass said:
Barefaced 2-10, you won't be disappointed....
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Nearly what I would go for. BUT....

For a lightweight cab that will couple with a 500 watt amp, and cover any gigging scenario the OP has stated, I would go for a Barefaced Super Twin. Relatively small, certainly lightweight at 37 lbs, and as much volume as a good 410. Or a Big Twin 2 if you need more top end capability.

Barefaced Bass - Super Twin
Barefaced Bass - Big Twin 2
 
#36
iualum said:
^^^ So, apart from the obvious fact that this didn't catch on (even with EV cabs), do you know why it didn't?
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The mid driver liked to cook, the cabs weighed about 800 lbs, and they cost more than a new Pinto. Where I lived back then a few of the really elite bassists and keyboard players gigged with them all the time though, usually with Crown DC300As that put total rig weight at like 1200 pounds. Plus, maybe especially back then, apparently most bassists don't really like the actual sound of their instruments without some fairly highly voiced filtering somewhere in the chain, IMNSHO. Vive la difference. Link Removed
 
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#39
Jools4001 said:
Nearly what I would go for. BUT....

For a lightweight cab that will couple with a 500 watt amp, and cover any gigging scenario the OP has stated, I would go for a Barefaced Super Twin. Relatively small, certainly lightweight at 37 lbs, and as much volume as a good 410. Or a Big Twin 2 if you need more top end capability.

Barefaced Bass - Super Twin
Barefaced Bass - Big Twin 2
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it depends on whether he wants a more vintage tone, or hifi.. I have a super twin and it's insane, but very hifi. I'm ordering a 6-10 in a couple of weeks so I can choose...
 
#40
Passinwind said:
Yep, the idea predates Dave Green's designs by at least a few decades. Here's an ad from 1979:

Link Removed
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+1. I was using the 15" 3-way EV back in the 80's to run my Moog Taurus pedals. The 3 way design is nothing new. The main reason our designs , or those from the other "high end" builders, excel really lies with the driver technology. Drivers like the neo Kappalites and Faital mids simply allow for greater performance. Lets face it, high end cabinet design is nothing new and the PA market is light years ahead of us in most regards. Bass cabs are just not a large enough market for any of us to get into composite cabs and the complex designs that we see in the PA market. Yes, you can build a bass cab in that manner, as is evident form some builders, but the high cost of building those cabs in small numbers puts them far outside the mainstream market.
 

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