How do I fix the mid scoop on a PJ?

[Elmstreet]

How do I fix the mid scoop on a PJ?

When I'm at home practicing and messing around with my tone, I like the clarity and the way drive/grind sounds when P and J are both on full.

When I get to rehearsal or to a gig I just disappear in my band that has 2 distorted guitars. I end up just favoring the P pickup for the gig or rehearsal.

The problem with this, is that my overall tone and drive sound way different with just a P pickup, so all time I've spent messing with my tone and getting my "grit" just right is all changed. Everything gets muddy, I have less note definition, it's like I turned on a fuzz pedal and increased the gain.

I'm learning about the "scoop" that happens with J basses and PJ basses, which makes sense as to why I'm disappearing in the mix. As I'm doing research on how to potentially fix this issue, I've come across a few different potential solutions, but I would love some feedback.

1. Series / Parallel switch mod
2. Swapping to mid heavy PJ set (Dimarzio Model PJ)
3. Increase mids on amp/preamp to counteract the scoop

For context, I'm referring to a parts bass that has EMG Geezer PJ pickups.

I was just about to order a set of Dimarzio Model PJ pickups thinking that was the problem but I figured I better ask the experts.

Any and all feedback would be appreciated.

 

[ctmullins]

Slightly back off on one of the volumes.

Or install a bass-cut cap for the bridge pickup (á la Rickenbacker).

Or use a buffered blend control (requires a battery).

 

[Elmstreet]

Slightly back off on one of the volumes.

Or install a bass-cut cap for the bridge pickup (á la Rickenbacker).

Or use a buffered blend control (requires a battery).

Thanks for the reply, the Rickenbacker mod interests me, I need to look more into that.

 

[DDawg]

I don't think changing the pickups is going to help much with the mid scoop.
As @ctmullins suggests, rolling off one of the volumes will reduce the effect. I usually reduce the bridge J-pickup volume a tad, but reducing either one will work.
Installing an inline cap on the bridge pickup works well, and you'll get more bass too. Rickenbacker uses a .0047 microfarad cap, but I usually install a .0068 microfarad cap with a switch.
Combining the pickups in series will eliminate the mid-scoop, but it may get a little boomy. The inline cap also works well to reduce the boom. Wiring the P-pickup coils in parallel rather than series also helps.
I usually add both series-parallel switching and a switchable inline cap to have as much versatilty as possible.

 

[manchego_eggo]

I'm currently running a Dimarzio sixties P with a Model J bridge and really like how they keep the mids in the mix compared to other PJ pairings.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

Flat wounds.

 

[Elmstreet]

I'm currently running a Dimarzio sixties P with a Model J bridge and really like how they keep the mids in the mix compared to other PJ pairings.

Interesting. Do you run them both at full volume?

 

[bobyoung53]

Thanks for the reply, the Rickenbacker mod interests me, I need to look more into that.

Actually Rics have less mids with the bridge pickup cap and they're more muddy. Just back off one of the pickups a little, the J pickup is just for top end, at least for me so I always drop it in the mix.

 

[walterw]

When I'm at home practicing and messing around with my tone, I like the clarity and the way drive/grind sounds when P and J are both on full.

When I get to rehearsal or to a gig I just disappear in my band that has 2 distorted guitars. I end up just favoring the P pickup for the gig or rehearsal.

IMO you have to just accept the real-world results with a band as opposed to what sounds good by yourself, the live mix is what actually matters

(and what that usually means with any instrument is less top and bottom and more mids; it might sound less pleasant by itself but that kind of tone is what works live)

 

[crazyBassClown]

Setting your sound to sound good solo is very likely to not sound good in a band context no matter what your pickups are doing scoop wise. You clearly like the sound of that scoop when solo or it wouldn't be there.
If you don't want to dissapear in a relatively busy mix the bass will need to be much harsher than you would like on it's own.
Go spend a while listening to the solo bass tracks for some of your favourite bands if you can find them and see what the tone is actually like solo rather than in the mix.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

I just modded a squier cv pj jaguar with a Dimarzio split p and ultra jazz.
Had a crazy amount of scoop on it, but I was able to fix by playing around with the distance between the strings and pickups.
What worked for me was backing off the neck p and having the bridge jazz pickup at an average height.
What works for you might be different. String type and guage will also have an effect pickup height adjustment sweet spots. Just adjusting volume on pots won't fix possible issues with excessive magnetic pull on strings which effect sound as well.

 

[mambo4]

Adjust your tone at rehearsal, with the band, listening to the mix. Bedroom tone is irrelevant.

 

[FugaziBomb]

Flat wounds.

I wish there were a dislike button

 

[Fat Bottom Kyle]

Ask your bandmates to humor you for a bit so you can dial in your mix in that environment. They might also have some good suggestions themselves.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

I wish there were a dislike button

Didn't you know flatwounds cure cancer as well?

 

[jdjk7]

How do I fix the mid scoop on a PJ?

When I'm at home practicing and messing around with my tone, I like the clarity and the way drive/grind sounds when P and J are both on full.

When I get to rehearsal or to a gig I just disappear in my band that has 2 distorted guitars. I end up just favoring the P pickup for the gig or rehearsal.

The problem with this, is that my overall tone and drive sound way different with just a P pickup, so all time I've spent messing with my tone and getting my "grit" just right is all changed. Everything gets muddy, I have less note definition, it's like I turned on a fuzz pedal and increased the gain.

I'm learning about the "scoop" that happens with J basses and PJ basses, which makes sense as to why I'm disappearing in the mix. As I'm doing research on how to potentially fix this issue, I've come across a few different potential solutions, but I would love some feedback.

1. Series / Parallel switch mod
2. Swapping to mid heavy PJ set (Dimarzio Model PJ)
3. Increase mids on amp/preamp to counteract the scoop

For context, I'm referring to a parts bass that has EMG Geezer PJ pickups.

I was just about to order a set of Dimarzio Model PJ pickups thinking that was the problem but I figured I better ask the experts.

Any and all feedback would be appreciated.

That's just kinda what happens, to Jazz, P/Js... really any bass with two or more coils/pickups, but especially ones that are relatively close together on the bass.

The obvious first thing to try (I hope) is to counteract the mid scoop at the amp. You didn't mention what you're using, but if your amp has a semi-parametric mid control, dialing this in could go a long way to fixing your problem. This costs you nothing.

As for switching pickups, I don't see how this would necessarily help. The mid scoop is a result of the combination of the pickups, not necessarily "which" pickups. You might be able to get more mid-heavy pickups, but the parallel combination of them will still scoop mids.

And... as for series/parallel, you could do that. I personally wouldn't, but only because I've never found a series-wired pickup situation that I've ever liked the sound of.

 

[bdplaid]

How do I fix the mid scoop on a PJ?

When I'm at home practicing and messing around with my tone, I like the clarity and the way drive/grind sounds when P and J are both on full.

When I get to rehearsal or to a gig I just disappear in my band that has 2 distorted guitars. I end up just favoring the P pickup for the gig or rehearsal.

The problem with this, is that my overall tone and drive sound way different with just a P pickup, so all time I've spent messing with my tone and getting my "grit" just right is all changed. Everything gets muddy, I have less note definition, it's like I turned on a fuzz pedal and increased the gain.

I'm learning about the "scoop" that happens with J basses and PJ basses, which makes sense as to why I'm disappearing in the mix. As I'm doing research on how to potentially fix this issue, I've come across a few different potential solutions, but I would love some feedback.

1. Series / Parallel switch mod
2. Swapping to mid heavy PJ set (Dimarzio Model PJ)
3. Increase mids on amp/preamp to counteract the scoop

For context, I'm referring to a parts bass that has EMG Geezer PJ pickups.

I was just about to order a set of Dimarzio Model PJ pickups thinking that was the problem but I figured I better ask the experts.

Any and all feedback would be appreciated.

The problem isn't you, it's that rock guitars eat up ALL the midrange. The only solution I have found is to go above and below them in the frequency spectrum. Think dUg Pinninks tone.

I went to double 15s with a prominent low end, and a spike around 1-2k.

When I play in bands in other genres, my tone is quite different and much heavier in the midrange because the guitars don't obliterate it.

 

[manchego_eggo]

Interesting. Do you run them both at full volume?

Yeah, as another person noted here too, running your P pickup lower than usual will help too.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

This vid was for a tuner demo but skip about 1:30. I used Logic Pro for IPad to fake a band and set my pickup heights so it would cut through the mix. Should be noted I don't use volume pots on my bass only switches bass heard in vid is both pickups in parallel. New Ernie ball medium gauge strings.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

I tend to set my bridge pickup closer to the strings than my middle pickup (J, P/J, really any 2 pickup bass) as the strings have less amplitude closer to the bridge. I then set my tone (usually with the BAL centered, or both pickups on full, if V/V/T controls). Then most of the rest of my adjustment throughout the gig is to favor the bridge pickup a bit for more bite and the other pickup a bit for a "fuller" tone.

BBB