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How do you play covers with many fills/variations live?
- Thread starter gregouille23
- Start date
My take: If I'm getting paid major bank in a clone act, note for note will be my goal. Otherwise, it's like others have said: signature riffs with liberties on fills etc.
Marc
Marc
devnulljp
Supporting Member
I play in a jazz band and we never play the song the same way once, let along twice.
Play the changes, get the groove, embellish to taste (usually less is more).
Play the changes, get the groove, embellish to taste (usually less is more).
You are doing what I always did. I think it's silly to learn a song like "Smoke On The Water" note for note. Just get a good basic idea of what the bass is doing and put your own thing on it and it'll be great. Some songs and parts of songs dictate that you learn them note for note or it doesn't sound like the song, but I tend not to worry about that so much if it's not absolutely necessary. Once saw Ritchie Blackmore sit in with a bunch of local guys at some charity thing, and they did Smoke, and none of them played it just like the record and Ritchie seemed cool with it.
Getting tunes note for note is kind of like knowing your times table to 1,000. You don't really need it, but it impresses the hell out of some people.
Something I've learned from playing in a bar cover/party band for the past 18 months, it's the bass. It drives the music that people dance to. I get a little flashy, but for the most part I just hold down the groove. Like someone else said, if it's a signature lick, that's something different. It also depends on what kind of cover band you're in. If I was in a tribute band, I would learn the parts to as close as the original as I could, because people are there to see the band and hear the music. But at most cover band gigs, people want to dance, not pay attention to whether you play every fill correctly. I hate to say the bass doesn't matter, but in the cover band scene that plays at bars/clubs, you are 100% more valuable as a pocket player that can hold the groove than a flashy player that dances up and down the fretboard.
In the dozens of shows I've played with this band, I've never had someone come up to me after a gig and say "hey I noticed you didn't play (insert riff here) in that song, why?"
In the dozens of shows I've played with this band, I've never had someone come up to me after a gig and say "hey I noticed you didn't play (insert riff here) in that song, why?"
I totally get serving the song. There is no reason to be 100% perfect or play note for note, and I don't always try to. But I do try to play my best and that includes some/most of the little licks and fills going in and out of chorus and verses. I want to play them well, as I feel it makes ME a better player.
For example, if you are playing Immigrant Song and get to the chorus scale runs, is it OK to just play the root instead of the entire 3 scale runs? A crowd probably won't know if I skipped them, and I wouldn't force it, especially over a 4 hour long gig, but If I don't push, I'll never keep getting better.
For example, if you are playing Immigrant Song and get to the chorus scale runs, is it OK to just play the root instead of the entire 3 scale runs? A crowd probably won't know if I skipped them, and I wouldn't force it, especially over a 4 hour long gig, but If I don't push, I'll never keep getting better.
Oddly enough, I have one song with many variations that was hard for me to remember - Miss You by the Stones. I just threw together a bunch of octave jumps and the appropriate 10+ fret quips and the band thinks I'm gold. I've told them over and over I don't play it right, but they don't care. The guitar player even said "you're the first one I've ever heard play it like the record"
I'm of the camp, learn the basics, throw in the signature runs, and worry about the rest when you have time.
Good example. Bill Wyman is one of those fantastic in the pocket groove players that never seems to repeat a lick or phrase in a song, but yet maintains a solid feel that keeps things moving throughout. It's true for just about every Stones tune that he recorded. You have to learn the changes, cop the groove, and throw in the licks when you feel them. No practical way to play his stuff note for note in my opinion.
Supadope
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- Nov 30, 2015
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Wait, people/ musicians are still being subjected to Smoke on the Water?
I've been playing classic and modern rock covers for 10 years between two acts, and I've played a lot of the same songs in the past decade. Smoke on the Water, Simple Man, Mustang Sally, etc etc. I can say with absolute certainty that I have never played any song 100% true to the album, and I probably have never even played the same song exactly the same varying from night to night. I've never lost sleep, and no one in the crowd has ever called me out for slightly modifying a pillar of rock and roll.
Play the correct changes and signature parts---- then make it your own.
Even the musicians on the recordings would likely play it different in a live situation.
For me --- note for note =
Even the musicians on the recordings would likely play it different in a live situation.
For me --- note for note =
^ ha! great! this is also my experience, my intention, my pleasure!
although one of my bands (jazz) does a lot of classic rock/pop cover tunes (we call it party jazz!), we like to 'suggest' the original tune in the first few bars (the head): and then we play --- for that moment. what the original players/artists did on their version is of no consequence to our 'moment'.
sounds like a lot of you are more 'jazz' (jazz = freedom) than you might think! i think that's a good thing.
I have been playing a long,long,time bla, bla, I learn the bass line note for note, ( I sight read ) I then change it live to fit drum fills. Some songs I don't play the studio line if is just straight up boring root note "riders", I write and add my own flavor that the chords bring out naturally. Some songs you can't not play them note for note, since the line is just fun to play. Others like people have mentioned, I will add Freebird live version, that I learned from Recorded Live: 7/2/1977 - Oakland Coliseum Stadium has so many ways he plays the lines I can hit most of them, but not all live. I like a challenge as much as the next person, but sometimes I don't understand why say in a verse you need to change the line you already wrote, unless the verse has a melody change, seems unnecessary to me considering the only one's who will ever notice it, will be one of us bottom feeders.
+1 to the comments, above, that it's important to first learn the changes and any signature licks. I'd add that it's important to accurately cop any rhythmic intricacies that make the tune special. (I've heard a lot of bands suck the groove out of a song by being sloppy about that.)
After that, IMHO the priority is to lock the pocket so the audience feels the groove--and that often involves doing something that works with what the other musicians are doing, but deviates a bit from the recording itself. IOW, when you're playing a cover tune live, you're playing _with your bandmates_, not the original tracks.
I can give an illustration. When I first learned Adele's Rolling in the Deep to play with my band, I heard the bass line pretty much in straight eight notes, all the same duration. After playing it out a few times, I started to let the upbeats ring a little longer (tenuto, as Larry Graham did on the early Sly hits) because that seemed to put a little more muscle into the groove with the way bandmates were playing it. It's a small thing, but if you A/B what I'm doing to the original, it'd be noticeable. The main thing is that I'm not playing it that way because I don't know any better; it's because it works better when my band plays the tune.
After that, IMHO the priority is to lock the pocket so the audience feels the groove--and that often involves doing something that works with what the other musicians are doing, but deviates a bit from the recording itself. IOW, when you're playing a cover tune live, you're playing _with your bandmates_, not the original tracks.
I can give an illustration. When I first learned Adele's Rolling in the Deep to play with my band, I heard the bass line pretty much in straight eight notes, all the same duration. After playing it out a few times, I started to let the upbeats ring a little longer (tenuto, as Larry Graham did on the early Sly hits) because that seemed to put a little more muscle into the groove with the way bandmates were playing it. It's a small thing, but if you A/B what I'm doing to the original, it'd be noticeable. The main thing is that I'm not playing it that way because I don't know any better; it's because it works better when my band plays the tune.
I used to play in a blues/rock project that played covers. We approached the songs from a similar angle. We would learn a song and it would morph over time into "our version". We would stretch and jam the song in rehearsal and just keep what we liked. Sometimes we would come up with a completely different arrangement. We did the Grateful Dead "New Minglewood Blues" and it never sounded the same way twice. At first, it was way outside my comfort zone... like being blindfolded on a roller coaster. You couldn't see what was coming. I adjusted and now I'm a better player for it.
Also, for what it is worth, I've been trying to learn Rush's YYZ note for note for over 30 years. I still can't play it that way... but my friends don't seem to notice.
Also, for what it is worth, I've been trying to learn Rush's YYZ note for note for over 30 years. I still can't play it that way... but my friends don't seem to notice.
My guitar player and I were talking about this over the weekend. We both believe the form and signature licks are the important parts. The rest gives us some room to make it our own, which makes it more fun. Then we had a laugh when he told me he got turned down at an audition for a Lynrd Skynrd tribute band because he didn't play the parts note for note.
Sean Hurley's method for getting down with John Mayer's song catalog was to get as close to the orginal material as possible and then work from there. As a new band member and bass player it can make a lot of sense. That said, I hate cover bands. A couple of covers to draw in the audience can be cool but I really only get into it if its a complete rehash of the song - like doing Florence & the Machine tune Ship to Wreck as a reggae groove. That was fun - for a minute . . . and never to be repeated.
One of the very few songs for which I learned the bass part note for note was the Beatles' Something. McCartney's bass line all through the song is so exquisite and expressive that I saw no point in playing it differently. Learning it was also a great lesson in constructing a melodic bass line.
Much the same was true for Jack Bruce's bass part in the original live version of Crossroads, although I'm sure he never played it the same twice.
Much the same was true for Jack Bruce's bass part in the original live version of Crossroads, although I'm sure he never played it the same twice.
I always strive to learn a song note for note, normally I won't play it at practice unless it's close to 90%, and live close closer to 95%. Once I feel it's as close to 100% as possible, and only then, occasionally I will take some liberties with it I feel may enhance it or at least make it more fun to play. IMHO and IME, people who learn a song loosely and then add "their flavor" are either at the genius level, or more likely, just lazy.
