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How important are personal beliefs in bands?

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#101
1958Bassman said:
Did they replace you with someone younger, at a lower pay rate? That's a couple of the main criteria for age discrimination and, unless they had other reasons to fire you, you may have a good case against them.
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Don't know if I was replaced. If I was, it would have been younger, cheaper for sure.

There is a little more to the story. I'll try to be quick.

I worked for a company that bought another company. the smaller company had a bigger plant locally.

So they moved my shop in with them.
All of the people I worked with had more years in than the the folks at the new shop. So we got our day shifts. A lot of friction went on.

27 of us went over. After 3 years, at the time I was fired there were 6 left from my old shop, all the rest were fired over the 3 years I was there.

So. I get a little miffed when I hear people say, "Your're not working cause you don't want a job" or, "Just find a job. there's plenty of work out there."

I worked 36 year in the same industry, 32 year at the same job. I believe I would have had my job today. I did nothing that should have gotten me fired.

I am 55 years old, too young to retired, too old to hire.

Now what?
 
#103
ChrisB2 said:
Discuss? Who was inflammatory? Which side's got the problem discussing???

Person A: "I think so-and-so is blah blah."

Person B: "You're an uninformed idiot."

If I were Person A, I'd walk too. Screw the gig.
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Well, if you walk, you're definitely the one refusing to discuss!

If you have views and you think they're reasonable, justify them, talk about them, stand up for them. Maybe you bring the other guy round, a little bit (Of course he won't admit it there and then at the time - that's pride, but we all know that, right)?

Or if you fail, accept that maybe your views aren't as informed, solid, logical, and persuasive as you thought they were. Have a think when you get home.

Either way, ride the bump.
 
#104
topo morto said:
Well, if you walk, you're definitely the one refusing to discuss!

If you have views and you think they're reasonable, justify them, talk about them, stand up for them. Maybe you bring the other guy round, a little bit (Of course he won't admit it there and then at the time - that's pride, but we all know that, right)?

Or if you fail, accept that maybe your views aren't as informed, solid, logical, and persuasive as you thought they were. Have a think when you get home.

Either way, ride the bump.
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You misunderstood my post. I have no problem with a mutually respectful discussion. But I wouldn't talk to someone who is abusive, I would just walk away.
 
#105
They are important. BUT, yours (mine, or anyone's for that matter) are not the only important ones. Everyone has strong beliefs and convictions. It's best to be in a band where your mates have the same ones (like the one I'm blessed to be in), but if you're not, then be passive toward it all, and don't "feed" people who are trying to wind you up over something. And especially don't blow up and leave after one argument. Remember, "Blessed are the peacemakers". Just find your zen man. I would not try to go back and talk to those kind of people though. They were certainly in the wrong for pulling the "you're stupid because you don't agree with me" crap that is unfortunately so prevalent in modern society, and it displays that they ARE as hypocritical and ignorant as they want to make you out to be. Keep rockin. You have to deal with some jerks along the way. Just means there's something better out there.
 
#106
Catbuster said:
So I joined a project that's already established and is gigging based on a tip from a friend. 5 piece rock/blues band.

Everything goes well until we start talking about the news and my inner right-wing conservative self comes out about Occupy Wall Street... Now, I'm a firm believer people need to work for what they get, and that if somebody isn't working that has the ability to do so, they need to be working. If they don't like the status of the U.S economy, they need to do something to stimulate it.

And... The guitar player's inner Zach De La Rocha comes out. I'm given a lecture about how hanging off the left is "the only way to be", and how I'm an "uninformed idiot" I storm off after hastily packing up, with him laughing his arse off.

So, the week of the gig. Monday practice, Friday show. I show up with no gear in my truck and tell him I won't be playing, so to find a suitable replacement. Only I used some other language. I don't plan on going back.

How important do you think personal beliefs are, and did I do the right thing?
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Not important at all. You my friend need to learn how to get along with people who may disagree politically with you. This country has become so polarized, that we can't even have a civil conversation with each other, without it turning into a "my team is better than your team" fight. This is exactly what the politicians (on both sides) want. They keep us fighting over the "issues", while they pick our pockets, or do some really nasty /unethical things in our name. As long as we the people treat our political parties as of they are our favorite sports teams, this country will be royally boned. We should be able to talk to each other about our political beliefs without anger. IMHO, Democrats and Republicans are like mom and dad driving down the interstate, arguing over which exit to take. Their destination is the same, they're only fighting over how to get there.
And yes, you did the wrong thing by bailing on them like that.
 
#107
I was asked to join a jazz ensemble for a church group 6 years ago. No one has ever asked me my beliefs. I don't belong to any church.

Inclusive impresses me.



Of course there was the time I was accused of smoking in the bathroom - but I chalked that up to the bad boy looks and bass player expectations (I don't smoke).

I can play with different beliefs, but stupidity is hard to be around. My flaw.
 
#108
I tend to play music with like minded folks. Not about of being closed minded, but because these folks are more often my friends, or the type that will become friends. We share a common bond/brotherhood. This is, I think, the NUMBER ONE reason Ive never had to post one of those "can you believe what my bandmate did?" threads. Since we are friends, and brothers we treat each other as such. Thereby most bands I have been in have lasted more than 3 years, with one lasting 18 years. I find that people who have toooooo different ideas from me on these kinda issues, also have terribly different values, and ways of treating others that are reflected in things like their political views, and because of that tend to treat the band the same way. Is your band a business? Then business minded folks are who you want. Is your band a journey and passion, then people on a journey are who you want.
 
#109
DougD said:
Not important at all. You my friend need to learn how to get along with people who may disagree politically with you. This country has become so polarized, that we can't even have a civil conversation with each other, without it turning into a "my team is better than your team" fight. This is exactly what the politicians (on both sides) want. They keep us fighting over the "issues", while they pick our pockets, or do some really nasty /unethical things in our name. As long as we the people treat our political parties as of they are our favorite sports teams, this country will be royally boned. We should be able to talk to each other about our political beliefs without anger. IMHO, Democrats and Republicans are like mom and dad driving down the interstate, arguing over which exit to take. Their destination is the same, they're only fighting over how to get there.
And yes, you did the wrong thing by bailing on them like that.
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I can't get over this chorus of people telling OP "you don't know how to get along." Hello!? The GUITARIST is the party guilty of the behavior you describe.

You're leaving out the part about the guitarist's behavior which makes all the difference in this case.

Civil discourse? Yes. Political debate? Of course. But abusive ridicule of another's views? No. Walk out. Screw them and their gig.

:rollno:
 
#110
Well, it depends on how important you want them to be, and on the nature of the relationships. Given the way things unfolded, I think you did the right thing. If some guy went off on me like that, I'd have been out of there too.

That said, I have a group of friends I have known for 30 years. we get together a couple of times a year, without families or wives. After much, er, consumption, conversation often turns to politics. We are split about 50/50 belief wise, so nobody is really out numbered. We have some major shouting matches, but in the end, we are all good friends.

So for me, it's about the relationships involved. New band with not a lot invested in it or the relationships? C-YA!
 
#111
ChrisB2 said:
You misunderstood my post. I have no problem with a mutually respectful discussion. But I wouldn't talk to someone who is abusive, I would just walk away.
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It depends what you really consider 'over the line' disrespectful, though. To me, being called an idiot (or worse) = not that much to worry about. At least I'm being listened to, if not understood; my views are being cared about, if not agreed with; and it might just an honest expression of surprise at encountering someone with different views. (Maybe I'm just too used to being called an idiot :) )

I would think it's more disrespectful to ignore/laugh at/dismiss someone - which can be done without any harsh words at all. In fact, genuinely harsh words are usually used with a hint of irony; if you really want to put someone down, silence or violence.

Whatever you encounter, walking off in a huff is a losing move. OK, it enables you to go back to your little bubble, but you probably look like you 'lost', you maybe even feel that way too, and no one learns anything.
 
#112
James at a show "the political/religious porton of the show has been canceled, it just makes us fight so we are gonna take it up in the parking lot after the show , please accept my apologies".

Thats as close as I will come to bringing politics or religion to the stage. Off the stage I encourage disagreements as long as we do not let them divide us. Disagreements can make us all stronger if we let them. I usually say "as soon as we realize that we disagree, drop it for future discussions". That allows for more thoughtful exchanges.

Both sides usually have some right on their side. This Rush Limbaugh mentallity of "me and my team are always right and can never make a mistake and its always that other teams fault" just needs to go away.

"Name calling"????? That would make me walk ASAP.
 
#113
I try to avoid bringing up the aforementioned bad topics (race, religion, politics), but it sometimes gets brought up. Drummer of the band is not afraid to hurt feelings, so sometimes takes a shot at a political ideal or person I support. I have to bite my tongue until it bleeds sometimes, but it is all for the good of the band. Unless the whole band is on the same page in all those topics, leave them alone.
 
#116
topo morto said:
They say they are:

against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations.

To put it more simply - the economic structures we have in place now don't reward the "honest day's work".

About Us | OccupyWallSt.org

Have you thought along those lines at all? Can you see any of those arguments? (By the way, I know I look like I'm bringing politics in here - Not intentionally, I'm just showing how wide the gulf in ideas might be)

Going back to your question, "Is it inflammatory" - I think it is inflammatory to bring up your views if you are not willing to have them discussed. Whether that is anything to do with the conversation you had, i don't know - i wasn't there, and your description of it was quite short. And I appreciate that the tone in which this guy was discussin' may have been impolite.
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+1
 
#118
ChrisB2 said:
I can't get over this chorus of people telling OP "you don't know how to get along." Hello!? The GUITARIST is the party guilty of the behavior you describe.

You're leaving out the part about the guitarist's behavior which makes all the difference in this case.

Civil discourse? Yes. Political debate? Of course. But abusive ridicule of another's views? No. Walk out. Screw them and their gig.

:rollno:
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Looked to me as if they were having a bit of fun at the OP's expense. and he took it hard. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. We can't have a bit of fun while talking politics with out someone getting their knickers in a bunch :) Believe me. The politicians know and capitalize on this. That's all I'm sayin.
 
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