Did they replace you with someone younger, at a lower pay rate? That's a couple of the main criteria for age discrimination and, unless they had other reasons to fire you, you may have a good case against them.
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How important are personal beliefs in bands?
- Thread starter Catbuster
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Did they replace you with someone younger, at a lower pay rate? That's a couple of the main criteria for age discrimination and, unless they had other reasons to fire you, you may have a good case against them.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and that's one of the only times I think anyone is actually entitled to ANYTHING, other than Life, Liberty and the happiness of pursuit (did I get that part wrong?). However, if someone wants to call another person an uninformed idiot for their beliefs, the one doing the name-calling gets nothing from me and I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. If someone wants to debate, fine. If they think name-calling and being unwilling to hear someone elses' views is a good way to be, they can go pound sand.
I was a member of a forum at the time of the last Presidential race and the ones who were absolutely unwilling to allow the rest of us to have an opinion without calling us 'stupid', 'uninformed' and much worse? The Liberals. They were absolutely blind to any possible faults in their candidates and nothing the Right has ever done was good, in any way. That was a disgusting display of BS and, while I think is was partly because they were posting online instead of face to face, they showed their utter disregard for anyone elses' opinions and the right to have a differing view. I suspect some violence would have occurred if these exchanges had happened when these people were together.
The guitarist showed a severe lack of maturity and if I was in your place. I probably would have quit, too. Not because I'm thin-skinned, but because he wanted to push buttons and be a dique.
I was a member of a forum at the time of the last Presidential race and the ones who were absolutely unwilling to allow the rest of us to have an opinion without calling us 'stupid', 'uninformed' and much worse? The Liberals. They were absolutely blind to any possible faults in their candidates and nothing the Right has ever done was good, in any way. That was a disgusting display of BS and, while I think is was partly because they were posting online instead of face to face, they showed their utter disregard for anyone elses' opinions and the right to have a differing view. I suspect some violence would have occurred if these exchanges had happened when these people were together.
The guitarist showed a severe lack of maturity and if I was in your place. I probably would have quit, too. Not because I'm thin-skinned, but because he wanted to push buttons and be a dique.
jive1
Commercial User
+1000.
It's not agreement that's important, it's respect for those differences. You can despise my beliefs, but as long as you can respect me as a person and continue to work on the common goal of music, it's all good. I will do the same for you.
+1.
If YOU can't stand playing music with people who don't share your politics or religion or whatever, then I guess they are important. If you're the kind of conservative that can't respect liberals, or vice versa, you're not going to last too long in a band where the others don't share your views. Sounds like that was the situation for the OP.
Personally, while I have some fairly strong views, I also believe that good and intelligent people can disagree with them and I don't have a problem being in a band with others' views. It would only become an issue if they wanted the band to do something that endorsed views I couldn't stand behind.
And, on whether the OP did the right thing, it looks to me like he's the one who "started it," at least as he recounts the argument. It sounds like it was a discussion of the news until he decided to put his disgust at OWS on the table. Dumping his band the week of a gig over something that he made an issue does not receive a winning score in my book.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
(Sorry, but that is seriously funny.)
Welcome to TalkBass. It's pretty normal for folks to post whatever they feel like, regardless of the content of the OP.
Cheers!
But to answer your questions, I think the issue of how important personal beliefs are will vary with each person. Myself, I play in a band with people who have very different lifestyles, and we just don't talk about stuff like that much. One guy is slightly vocal, but he and I pretty much think alike and the others just keep quiet, so there are no problems.
I can't say if you did the right thing or not. That's up to you. You spoke up and now you're out of your band. Did that work out okay in your mind? I probably wouldn't have shared those views if I enjoyed the band and wanted to continue with them. I will say, though, you shouldn't apologize or feel bad for speaking your mind. But only you can answer if it was the right thing to do or not in that situation.
(I agree with your position, btw)
Personal beliefs (be it political, religious, or what the best type of cheese is) for the most part are not so important to me. I have not problem working or getting along with someone who doesn't share the beliefs I do. Unless your band is out to convey a particular message, no, personal beliefs should not matter in a band. If such matters are going to be discussed make sure you know who you are going to be talking to. I've met very few people who are capable of having a civil, educated conversation when discussing opposing views.
Obviously it means a lot to you since you quit the band because of it.
And by the the way, now you mention it yourself, you know due to the economic situation every one can't just get a job, so it should be the governments business to cover for the loss.
And by the the way, now you mention it yourself, you know due to the economic situation every one can't just get a job, so it should be the governments business to cover for the loss.
Ok, now it's really getting off topic, but let me elaborate. That's how we do in europe. You got to take care of your cityzens in a democracy.
You know, of course, "the government" gets its money from me, the taxpayer. Maybe I'm not so keen on "covering the loss."
Well, people who loss their job, was once tax payers you know. You can't just let people die in the street. But I guess that's how they do in America.
What kind of citizen are you anyway not to care about you fellow countrymen.
speaking as someone who has had many threads closed by making political comments, can I interrupt to say: ease off, chaps! 
Yessir. This went exactly the opposite way I wanted it to go.
To quote me, I said "I don't really understand the point of Occupy Wall Street. It seems like the protesters want to just sit on their @$$ and use the constitution via the right to peaceful protest to cover tha fact that they aren't trying to find work."
Is that inflammatory? And yes, it probably was one dimensional.
Like most people in academia, I would characterize my political views as left-leaning. Most of my bandmates have been on the conservative side and I even spent some time in a gospel folk band with three fundamentalist Christians and a Jewish atheist (he and I were also in a duo and frequently had good political discussions). Political issues occasionally arose during break time, but I cant recall any conversations getting out of hand to the point of angering or alienating anyone.
The only bandmate I ever had political problems with was the male equivalent of Bea Arthurs Maude. He believed he was completely tolerant, yet IMO his tolerance did not extend to anyone whose beliefs were even slightly to the right of his. Mr. Maude told me that over the space of 25 years he had been forced to leave several bands because of politics. He claimed that it started in the 80s with some bandmates who wouldnt stop praising Reagan. The better I got to know him, the more I began to suspect that he was the one who had likely started the arguments and the other guys just said things that they knew would push his buttons. He also had a bit of a persecution complex, so I could imagine how he would perceive their behavior as trying to force him out of the band.
Although Mr. M and I did agree on several political issues, I quickly grew tired of how he attempted to politicize everything under the sun and continually frothed at the mouth over it. To hear him talk, everything wrong with this country could be blamed on Reagan and Bush II.
The conclusion that Ive come to from my experiences is that unless you form a band for political purposes, politics need to stay out of it. If I want to have political discussions, I go to work and hang out with the liberal arts and social science folks. If I want to play music and have fun, I call my band. No one is going to be able to spend all their time with people who think exactly the same way about everything, and the earlier we figure that out and learn how to cope with that reality, the better off well all be.
The only bandmate I ever had political problems with was the male equivalent of Bea Arthurs Maude. He believed he was completely tolerant, yet IMO his tolerance did not extend to anyone whose beliefs were even slightly to the right of his. Mr. Maude told me that over the space of 25 years he had been forced to leave several bands because of politics. He claimed that it started in the 80s with some bandmates who wouldnt stop praising Reagan. The better I got to know him, the more I began to suspect that he was the one who had likely started the arguments and the other guys just said things that they knew would push his buttons. He also had a bit of a persecution complex, so I could imagine how he would perceive their behavior as trying to force him out of the band.
Although Mr. M and I did agree on several political issues, I quickly grew tired of how he attempted to politicize everything under the sun and continually frothed at the mouth over it. To hear him talk, everything wrong with this country could be blamed on Reagan and Bush II.
The conclusion that Ive come to from my experiences is that unless you form a band for political purposes, politics need to stay out of it. If I want to have political discussions, I go to work and hang out with the liberal arts and social science folks. If I want to play music and have fun, I call my band. No one is going to be able to spend all their time with people who think exactly the same way about everything, and the earlier we figure that out and learn how to cope with that reality, the better off well all be.
They say they are:
against the corrosive power of major banks and multinational corporations over the democratic process, and the role of Wall Street in creating an economic collapse that has caused the greatest recession in generations.
To put it more simply - the economic structures we have in place now don't reward the "honest day's work".
About Us | OccupyWallSt.org
Have you thought along those lines at all? Can you see any of those arguments? (By the way, I know I look like I'm bringing politics in here - Not intentionally, I'm just showing how wide the gulf in ideas might be)
Going back to your question, "Is it inflammatory" - I think it is inflammatory to bring up your views if you are not willing to have them discussed. Whether that is anything to do with the conversation you had, i don't know - i wasn't there, and your description of it was quite short. And I appreciate that the tone in which this guy was discussin' may have been impolite.
Most definitely inflammatory, on top of not being true. No wonder you got taken to task. (although I am also of the mind, your bandmate could have handled it much better) That's not debating your political beliefs as opposed to theirs, that's deliberately trying to invalidate someone's political beliefs that are different from yours by insulting and ridiculingfthem without getting your facts straight. And then you bailed on a gig last minute. (and don't fool yourself, 5 days is very last minute). Not cool.
Discuss? Who was inflammatory? Which side's got the problem discussing???
Person A: "I think so-and-so is blah blah."
Person B: "You're an uninformed idiot."
If I were Person A, I'd walk too. Screw the gig.
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