How many song to learn is reasonable for an initial try-out?

[bluewine]

Must be nice to be able to dictate your requirements to prospective employers. Are you the first call bass guy in your area?

Why do you only audition last?

I have a low opinion of the protocol most bands have for auditioning.

The protocol is usually no protocol.

I am not sure there is first call Guy in my area unless your talkiing about small inner circles and I am not a part of that.

I do pretty good, my in-between band time was only 2 months. The other guys have not seen their first audition because they won't play covers and all the originals opportunities are from flakes

 

[jive1]

Must be nice to be able to dictate your requirements to prospective employers. Are you the first call bass guy in your area?

Why do you only audition last?

First call guys usually don't audition. Lots of steady working players don't audition because they already have a body of work and a repuation that others can refer to.

There's tons of delusional folks on Craigslist. Why should you be surprised if one of them posts on TB?

 

[mellowinman]

But, those Rock tunes are so hard. There's like 3 whole chords in them.

Most rock songs have more than three chords. Sure, there are plenty that only have three, but more often than not, rock songs have more than three.

And on bass, good rock and roll songs have runs, walks and other such passages that transition between the chords, but many cover bands choose not to play them that way.

A good example is "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin.

I hear a lot of bass players just play the root note, and repeat it endlessly, when there are some excellent walks that make the transitions to "lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely time."

And a ton of guitar players who strum a barre chord when they should be picking apart that chord.

I believe an overly simplistic approach to cover songs is unholy, and perverse.

Anyone auditioning for us that left out the nuances in these songs didn't spend much time in our jam space.

We even do one three chorder I can think of off the top of my head: Knockin' on Heaven's Door.

Of course, three chord songs often make for lovely harmonies, anyway.

 

[markkoelsch]

I would personally think no more than 5 for an audition. If you can learn more great, but have 5 down cold and that should be enough.

 

[theduke1]

All good advice, but for me most times, there are songs that everyone knows, for the first time, all parties should pick 6-10 tunes that you all have played at one time or anotherand see how it feels. set lists and such can come later if you become a group.
now I've been doing this a very long time, so i can tell after three tunes and 15 min. if someone will fit in or I'll fit in. most people make way to big a deal of try outs! do what you do and be yourself!

 

[bluewine]

Most rock songs have more than three chords. Sure, there are plenty that only have three, but more often than not, rock songs have more than three.

And on bass, good rock and roll songs have runs, walks and other such passages that transition between the chords, but many cover bands choose not to play them that way.

A good example is "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin.

I hear a lot of bass players just play the root note, and repeat it endlessly, when there are some excellent walks that make the transitions to "lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely time."

And a ton of guitar players who strum a barre chord when they should be picking apart that chord.

I believe an overly simplistic approach to cover songs is unholy, and perverse.

Anyone auditioning for us that left out the nuances in these songs didn't spend much time in our jam space.

We even do one three chorder I can think of off the top of my head: Knockin' on Heaven's Door.

Of course, three chord songs often make for lovely harmonies, anyway.

You're on board, there are some rather simplistic rock and rock & roll songs, that doesn't mean the bass lines, stops & starts and nuances are simple. Some of you beginners don't even have the chops yet to play some of these parts corectly.

Another point, sometime you will hear a part and think it's easy when in fact the bass player on the original recording only made it seem easy because those guys are that good.

 

[jive1]

Most rock songs have more than three chords. Sure, there are plenty that only have three, but more often than not, rock songs have more than three.

And on bass, good rock and roll songs have runs, walks and other such passages that transition between the chords, but many cover bands choose not to play them that way.

A good example is "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin.

I hear a lot of bass players just play the root note, and repeat it endlessly, when there are some excellent walks that make the transitions to "lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely time."

And a ton of guitar players who strum a barre chord when they should be picking apart that chord.

I believe an overly simplistic approach to cover songs is unholy, and perverse.

Anyone auditioning for us that left out the nuances in these songs didn't spend much time in our jam space.

We even do one three chorder I can think of off the top of my head: Knockin' on Heaven's Door.

Of course, three chord songs often make for lovely harmonies, anyway.

OK, I concede. Some have 4 chords...

Kidding aside, I agree with everything you say, but still I don't consider Rock and Roll to be a hard song on bass, even with all the nuances. It's still a 12 bar progression. And because of it's simplicity, I wouldn't mind a bass player adding his own walkups, fills, and other nuances as long as it fits the song. Regardless, I wouldn't expect an experienced pro to take more than 15-30 minutes (if that) to learn the chord progression and come up with interesting nuances of their own or just like the record.

Speaking of Rock N Roll, I have done that song countless times with lots of different players. One of the first songs I ever learned on bass. The hard parts are the vocals and the drums. 90% of the drummers get the beat wrong, because the snare and hihat are reversed from a common rock shuffle, with the snare ghosting the notes that normally go on the hi-hat. Most singers won't even attempt the high ahh towards the end. But, it seems as long as the drummer gets the intro and the solo at the end, and the singer does the verses right, the crowd loves it.

 

[bluewine]

All good advice, but for me most times, there are songs that everyone knows, for the first time, all parties should pick 6-10 tunes that you all have played at one time or anotherand see how it feels. set lists and such can come later if you become a group.
now I've been doing this a very long time, so i can tell after three tunes and 15 min. if someone will fit in or I'll fit in. most people make way to big a deal of try outs! do what you do and be yourself!

Everyone can be fooled at a audition. I audition well, but, I would be the first to tell you, I am extremely difficult to work with.

I usually enter an audition like I am more of a guest celebrity. It supports my "You Need Me More than I Need You" approach.

 

[bluewine]

OK, I concede. Some have 4 chords...

I agree with everything you say, but still I don't consider Rock and Roll to be a hard song on bass, even with all the nuances. It's still a 12 bar progression. And because of it's simplicity, I wouldn't mind a bass player adding his own walkups, fills, and other nuances as long as it fits the song. Regardless, I wouldn't expect an experienced pro to take more than 15-30 minutes (if that) to learn the chord progression and come up with interesting nuances of their own or just like the record.

WOW! Your just wrong. Nothing more to be said.

 

[jive1]

Well what do you know. I have one of the most in demand bassists in DC coming over to the shop. I will temporaily take Bluewine off ignore for this one.

Chance to put your money where your mouth is. $25 bet.

Name the most obscure Rock or Funk tune you know where there is a recording available on the internet. Provide the link. He will learn it for you in less than 30 minutes. I will video it.

 

[bluewine]

Well what do you know. I have one of the most in demand bassists in DC coming over to the shop. I will temporaily take Bluewine off ignore for this one.

Chance to put your money where your mouth is. $25 bet.

Name the most obscure Rock or Funk tune you know where there is a recording available on the internet. Provide the link. He will learn it for you in less than 30 minutes. I will video it.

No thanks jive, It wouldn't prove anything. I am sticking to my guns on this issue.

And no offence , I suggest you keep me on ignore.

I was out there gigging in bands before you were born. We are a generation apart and we will never see eye to eye on band management issues.

Anyone that thinks Kiss was bigger than The Beatles is just lost. And I fully understand I will get no support on this issue because the "Boys " had formally broken up as a band years before you and most TBers were born.

So, I say, if you weren't around at the time, you don't know and could not possibly understand how big they were and still are.

I'll give you this, if I ever needed a top notch booking guy, you would be the first Guy I would call.

blue

 

[bluewine]

Well what do you know.

What do I know?

Since I know everything it's hard for me to respond.

blue

 

[Bass Viking]

I am not sure there is first call Guy in my area unless your talkiing about small inner circles and I am not a part of that.

First call guys usually don't audition. Lots of steady working players don't audition because they already have a body of work and a repuation that others can refer to.

There's tons of delusional folks on Craigslist. Why should you be surprised if one of them posts on TB?

Actually, I was being sarcastic when I asked if Bluewine was the first-call go-to-guy in his area. I should have used the sarcasm emoticon. My apologies to anyone who took it seriously.

 

[jive1]

No thanks jive, It wouldn't prove anything. I am sticking to my guns on this issue.

And no offence , I suggest you keep me on ignore.

I was out there gigging in bands before you were born. We are a generation apart and we will never see eye to eye on band management issues.

Anyone that thinks Kiss was bigger than The Beatles is just lost. And I fully understand I will get no support on this issue because the "Boys " had formally broken up as a band years before you and most TBers were born.

So, I say, if you weren't around at the time, you don't know and could not possibly understand how big they were and still are.

I'll give you this, if I ever needed a top notch booking guy, you would be the first Guy I would call.

blue

All talk, no action. You know what they say about talk. A chance to put some meat behind your BS, and you chicken out. Typical blowhard, a coward deep down.

No offense, but regardless of your BS and lies, your posts scream "ROOKIE". Lots of us see right past it. Too bad you can't.

Booking agent? I haven't booked a show since my father's stroke last summer. But if by booking agent, you're insuating I can't play...Whenever you're up for a challenge, I'm here.

Until then, back on ignore.

 

[jive1]

Actually, I was being sarcastic when I asked if Bluewine was the first-call go-to-guy in his area. I should have used the sarcasm emoticon. My apologies to anyone who took it seriously.

Stop that.......admit it....You really believed that Bluewine was the first call player in Wisconsin. That's OK, this is the internet.

 

[bluewine]

Stop that.......admit it....You really believed that Bluewine was the first call player in Wisconsin. That's OK, this is the internet.

First call player, I think that would be a real short list of Milwaukee insiders.

I am an outsider for the most part, but some musicians know who I am.

It was cool that I was approached for the position with my new band. It was not advertised. The lead guitarist knew of me from my work with 2MorrowEvrAfter.

 

[bluewine]

All talk, no action. You know what they say about talk. A chance to put some meat behind your BS, and you chicken out. Typical blowhard, a coward deep down.

No offense, but regardless of your BS and lies, your posts scream "ROOKIE". Lots of us see right past it. Too bad you can't.

As I said jive, I was giging bands before you were born. I was out there in the 60s gigging in Funk bands when you were in diapers.

But I am a rookie to booking. And in my opinion that's what you are. Your a business Guy.

 

[AfroCubanFunkMa]

Oh Bluewhine.. I figured it was just a matter of time til you started acting out again.. It's really quite predictable psychology at this point. I'm taking odds as to when you end up on a banned list.. My bet is that it will be the same week you lose yet another gig.. Double or nothing anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

 

[Sundogue]

50 new song, gig ready, no cheat sheets, no 12 bar progressions, absolutely not.

I can't and you can't.

I am sure your definition of knowing a song and mine are. different.

The only way I will concede is if you don't work and have 2 weeks open to do nothing except practice.

blue

Ha...I use cheat sheets for every gig I've ever played...most of the time they are left ignored and are always out of sight. No one in the audience would ever know I had them, including you.

Here's my definition of "knowing" songs after spending a week learning 60 tunes. 60 tunes from Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, Ozzy, AC/DC, Sammy Hagar, Night Ranger, and any other number of classic rock tunes from the 70's, 80's, 90's along with some current stuff (at the time). Not exactly difficult, but not three chord jams all night either.

I show up for the gig, put my cheat sheet on a monitor (out of view) and rip through the entire gig without screwing up (or staring at my notes). The audience is entertained, the band is thrilled the gig went off without so much as a single glitch in the performance.

Did I play perfect? I don't ever play perfect. No one does. But I pulled the gig off after one week of learning 60 songs. And at the time it was one week of a full time job, four kids, a part time job on the side AND learning all 60 tunes. Not much sleep to be had but I did what was required. It's called professionalism. Try it sometime.

I had on-call gigs when I lived in St. Louis where I'd show up, be on stage and the only rehearsal I had was the guitar player giving me a quick shout-out of the chord progression before starting the tune. Learn on the go and thrown right into the fire. Now that was a challenge and it wasn't always pretty.

 

[jive1]

Here's an example of how you learn a Rock tune in 10 minutes.

I'll use Led Zeppelin's Rock N Roll.

It's a simple song, mainly just a 12 bar blues with a stop in the turn around. Driving, 8th note feel throughout. Key of A.

Drums kick off the song, listen to the recording, and you'll get an idea of the intro. It's basically a Rock shuffle, quarter note feel on the hihat. Really nail the kick. Don't be afraid to ghost the snare like you would the hihat like Bonham did. The singer will cue with the stop on the turnaround with "been a long time". Drums will play a fill to bring the band back in.

Guitar, the intro is basically a mixolydian scale with a minor 3rd thrown in. Play an A chord, and then a with a 3rd in the bass, an A, and then an A7, A6 and end the riff with a bend on the minor third. The little chord flourishes are just the 3rd and 7th of an A7 chord going back and forth a half step. Do this as a 12 bar blues.
For the verses, it's basically a G-A. Let the A ring out. On the solo, it's basically a pentatonic scale, but at the end make sure to do some hammer-on, or triplet to accent the stop. Drums will bring us back out of the solo, and we come back in on the verse.

Bass, you basically are going to be pulsing the root in an 8th note feel. Not too much swing please. Do a little flat 7 to root thing, with the pulse being on the root. Don't be to afraid to do a chromatic walkup or walkdown here or there, especially after the guitar solo and we really start cranking. No bass on the stops or the drum fill.

Keys, you have the easy job. Just sit back and play some dominant 7th chords quietly until the end of the guitar solo. Then I want you to bang on the 7th chords in the upper register. On the ooh yeahs, feel free to jam some mixolydian stuff to add some energy to the song.

Drums end the song on a free time solo. Listen to the recording for an idea. After that is done, the band will come back in for a big Rock N Roll ending.


Got it? Here we go.......

1, 2, 3, 4 !