How many song to learn is reasonable for an initial try-out?

[Munjibunga]

... I would be the first to tell you, I am extremely difficult to work with.

So stop giving us advice. That's nothing about which to boast. I can guarantee you that people like Nathan East didn't become first-call musicians by being hard to work with. Quite the opposite. When we audition people, personality plays at least as big a role as musicianship. People who are hard to work with don't last long in my bands.

 

[mwbassace]

I agree with Jive. My band always does "our" version of a song. That's not to say we radically change the song, but sometimes we do. Back when I first was gigging I made cheat sheets to help learn songs and cover my butt live. I used to write the actual note letters out but then thought I created a cool "new" system for my cheat sheets, then discovered that the Nashville Number System already existed!

 

[jive1]

Quit trolling, Blue. You're on ignore. Anything you intend for me is only clutter for other TBers.

My apologies to the OP and posters that contributed to this thread. There's someone obviously not playing with a full deck, and I shouldn't have escalated that.
Narcissistic personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But there is some useful information and I will start a new thread on learning new tunes quickly. Hopefully Sundogue, Brad and others will add some useful information to it.

 

[bluewine]

You know I have 3 sets of material to learn by 11/26 my first gig with the new band.

I am not going to sit and write about how I learn songs other than I use an iPod and a Korg Pandora.

All I am really thinking about is how I will get the right tone and volume level, shining, laying down a solid groove (hope the drummer is with me) and that my style will bring the bands overall performance up a few notches.

 

[Johnny Fila]

But there is some useful information and I will start a new thread on learning new tunes quickly. Hopefully Sundogue, Brad and others will add some useful information to it.

as someone who just started playing in a gigging cover band again after a 20 plus year hiatus, I look forward to that thread.

 

[mellowinman]

Playing a song "right" is subjective.

For me, you either play it IDENTICAL to the CD performance, or you IMPROVE upon it.

Hitting the basic elements of it won't get you the gig.

The mechanics of rock and roll are easy, but rock and roll itself is not.

It takes passion, and passion has to convey talent.

There are a lot more bands out there than the public needs, that's for sure.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Blue is at it again. How did I miss this thread?!!!!

 

[jive1]

The mechanics of rock and roll are easy, but rock and roll itself is not.

It takes passion, and passion has to convey talent.

There are a lot more bands out there than the public needs, that's for sure.

It actually is, at least the music part. That's what's great about it. That's what gives it it's power. You don't need a college degree to be able to crank out Satisfaction, like you would Vivaldi's Seasons. You don't need a $12,000 saxophone to be taken seriously, like in Jazz. A cheap guitar and an amp with grit can get you by.

The simplicity of Rock and Roll is what draws the masses. Most people aren't musicians. You nail the intro for Johnny B Goode, and they think you are a guitar god, when it's actually an easy piece to play on guitar. Most people don't understand complex chord progressions, that's why Rock is simple in that way.

I don't intend to demean Rock when I say it's easy. Actually, the opposite. Once you can demystify what it is, and see that it's actually that easy, you can play confidently and put on a show. Check this out: Led Zeppelin - Rock And Roll (Live Video) - YouTube . Neither Jimmy Page nor JPJ are doing anything that difficult. But is the song still a masterpiece? Most definitely. Did they put on a show? Sure. Did Jimmy Page play sloppy on the solo? Sure. Did the Crowd love it? Of course! It's friggin Zeppelin!

That's what's great about Rock N Roll. It's the style of music that says,"Be a part of it" and "Hey come join us and jam!". You don't need a tux, years of education, and an expensive instrument. You just need 3 chords and some energy.

It really is that simple. Thank God that it is.

 

[bluewine]

So stop giving us advice. That's nothing about which to boast. I can guarantee you that people like Nathan East didn't become first-call musicians by being hard to work with. Quite the opposite. When we audition people, personality plays at least as big a role as musicianship. People who are hard to work with don't last long in my bands.

Hmmmm, not sure I have ever givin any advice in this forum. I have shared stories and made comments, but thats about it.

BTW, good for Nathan East I don't know who he is anymore than you know who Chuck Rainey is.

 

[bluewine]

It actually is, at least the music part. That's what's great about it. That's what gives it it's power. You don't need a college degree to be able to crank out Satisfaction, like you would Vivaldi's Seasons. You don't need a $12,000 saxophone, just a cheap guitar and an amp with grit.

The simplicity of Rock and Roll is what draws the masses. Most people aren't musicians. You nail the intro for Johnny B Goode, and they think you are a guitar god, when it's actually an easy piece to play on guitar. Most people don't understand complex chord progressions, that's why Rock is simple in that way.

I don't intend to demean Rock when I say it's easy. Actually, the opposite. Once you can demystify what it is, and see that it's actually that easy, you can play confidently and put on a show. Check this out: Led Zeppelin - Rock And Roll (Live Video) - YouTube . Neither Jimmy Page nor JPJ are doing anything that difficult. But is the song still a masterpiece? Most definitely. Did they put on a show? Sure. Did Jimmy Page play sloppy on the solo? Sure. Did the Corwd love it? Of course! They have the energy.

That's what's great about Rock N Roll. It's the style of music that say, "Hey come join us and jam!". You don't need a tux and years of education. You just need 3 chords and some energy.

It really is that simple. Thank God that it is.

Oh brother, no comment, just rolling my eyes.

We get it jive, you like music..

 

[bluewine]

Playing a song "right" is subjective.

For me, you either play it IDENTICAL to the CD performance, or you IMPROVE upon it.

Hitting the basic elements of it won't get you the gig.

The mechanics of rock and roll are easy, but rock and roll itself is not.

It takes passion, and passion has to convey talent.

There are a lot more bands out there than the public needs, that's for sure.

I agree, +1

 

[Catbuster]

Well... I pretty much listen to the music being played, and figure it while I'm listening. I think my list of music I know includes about 200 songs I picked up from just listening to them.

 

[Munjibunga]

Hmmmm, not sure I have ever givin any advice in this forum. I have shared stories and made comments, but thats about it.

BTW, good for Nathan East I don't know who he is anymore than you know who Chuck Rainey is.

That wouldn't be the same Chuck Rainey who played bass on Steely Dan's Aja album, would it? The one who's in the hospital right now, having suffered a stroke? Or a different one?

I don't want to take the time to go back and rustle up all the threads you've started offering advice on one thing or another, but you can do that for yourself after you've finished polishing all your songs.

Nathan East has recorded and/or toured with Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Barbra Streisand, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Barry White, Whitney Houston, Quincy Jones, Lionel Richie, Kenny Loggins, and a slew of others. He also plays with Bob James, Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour, and Harvey Mason as a founding member of the jazz group Fourplay. He holds a degree in Music from UCSD. He is the definition of a first-call bassist, and I am astonished you've never heard of him.

Here's a little clip from his website:

In 1991, Nathan was voted the Most Valuable Player in the bass category at the International Rock Awards and is three time recipient of the National Smooth Jazz Award Bassist of the Year. He also won Britains most prestigious Ivor Novello Award for co-writing the number one hit song "Easy Lover" with Phil Collins and Philip Bailey (1984). The National Academy of Recording Arts & Sciences has awarded East Emeritus status for winning the most consecutive years as MVP Bassist.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Jive, you have so much going on in your personal life. I would not trade places with you. You should take a breath and concentrate whats important and less on me. I am a veteran player and understand the history of this culture at a level you could not begin to understand.

All of your facts about my history are wrong.

I started playing in the 6th grade, It was 1965 and we played private parties, school and church sponsored dances.

It's imposible to learn 50 new songs and be gig ready for a flawless performance.

I understand why your jealous of me, but you will get over it.

I am clueless on the business side, I rely on people like you for that. You book it, you manage it and I will deliver the performance.

I bet you I could do it. I mean shoot, my band learned 20 songs in two days in order to play our first performance as a group - as in we rehearsed on Sunday and Monday and then played out that Tuesday. At that rate we could of had 140 done in two weeks.

Our gig also went down incredibly well considering the time we had to prep. Was it 'flawless'? No, but what gig ever is? I think you're the jealous one here.

 

[bluewine]

That wouldn't be the same Chuck Rainey who played bass on Steely Dan's Aja album, would it? The one who's in the hospital right now, having suffered a stroke? Or a different one?

I don't want to take the time to go back and rustle up all the threads you've started offering advice on one thing or another, but you can do that for yourself after you've finished polishing all your songs.

Nathan East has recorded and/or toured with Eric Clapton, Phil Collins, Barbra Streisand, Michael Jackson, Madonna, Barry White, Whitney Houston, Quincy Jones, Lionel Richie, Kenny Loggins, and a slew of others. He also plays with Bob James, Larry Carlton, Lee Ritenour, and Harvey Mason as a founding member of the jazz group Fourplay. He holds a degree in Music from UCSD. He is the definition of a first-call bassist, and I am astonished you've never heard of him.

Here's a little clip from his website:

I think I know who he is now, I just did not his name.


Chuck Rainy, with steely dan, I just remember his bass playing on the Coke a Cola commercials in the 70s.

 

[mellowinman]

It actually is, at least the music part. That's what's great about it. That's what gives it it's power. You don't need a college degree to be able to crank out Satisfaction, like you would Vivaldi's Seasons. You don't need a $12,000 saxophone to be taken seriously, like in Jazz. A cheap guitar and an amp with grit can get you by.

The simplicity of Rock and Roll is what draws the masses. Most people aren't musicians. You nail the intro for Johnny B Goode, and they think you are a guitar god, when it's actually an easy piece to play on guitar. Most people don't understand complex chord progressions, that's why Rock is simple in that way.

I don't intend to demean Rock when I say it's easy. Actually, the opposite. Once you can demystify what it is, and see that it's actually that easy, you can play confidently and put on a show. Check this out: Led Zeppelin - Rock And Roll (Live Video) - YouTube . Neither Jimmy Page nor JPJ are doing anything that difficult. But is the song still a masterpiece? Most definitely. Did they put on a show? Sure. Did Jimmy Page play sloppy on the solo? Sure. Did the Crowd love it? Of course! It's friggin Zeppelin!

That's what's great about Rock N Roll. It's the style of music that says,"Be a part of it" and "Hey come join us and jam!". You don't need a tux, years of education, and an expensive instrument. You just need 3 chords and some energy.

It really is that simple. Thank God that it is.

Well, I'm happy to report that, being a diverse world of differing personalities and philosophies, you and I have almost a completely opposing point of view on this one.

Anybody can play rock and roll, yes.

But should they?

As I said, I have yet to see a cover of "Rock and Roll" by an amateur band that begins to capture it's spirit. Sure, Heart does a pretty good job, and I'm sure there are others on the top pro level, but most cover bands simply do not get the nuances of the song. The bass line almost always lacks the necessary fluidity, and the guitar part always lacks the essential vibrancy.

More to the point, the lead vocal is difficult to nail in both technical and emotional terms, and if your drummer doesn't have not only the style but the tone, it will sound flat, and uninspired.

And whenever I heard someone say Jimmy Page played ANYTHING "sloppy" I assume that they will show me a solo of his caliber by posting a link to it. Jimmy Page's solos were incredible, and all the technical wankery of the thousands of artists who came after can't begin to match his originality, effectiveness, and raw power.

There's a certain something a person has to have to really be good at rock and roll. They have to have a real unhinged and dangerous quality, and a real honest sexuality. Rock and roll has been hygienically packaged for the masses by large corporations for far too long, causing people to get what it really is.

Rock and roll is an honest expression of rebellion. It's the blues turned up to 11. When it is safe, or follows a formula, it is no longer rock and roll.

It is popular music, BASED on rock and roll.

 

[jive1]

Anybody can play rock and roll, yes.

But should they?

Actually, I agree with that one. Anybody can play Rock and Roll. Whether they should or not is subjective.

As I said, I have yet to see a cover of "Rock and Roll" by an amateur band that begins to capture it's spirit. Sure, Heart does a pretty good job, and I'm sure there are others on the top pro level, but most cover bands simply do not get the nuances of the song. The bass line almost always lacks the necessary fluidity, and the guitar part always lacks the essential vibrancy.

More to the point, the lead vocal is difficult to nail in both technical and emotional terms, and if your drummer doesn't have not only the style but the tone, it will sound flat, and uninspired.

I agree on that one. Our band does it, and the drummer is what really makes the song. The vocals aren't like Plant, and the guitar definitely not like Page, but the crowd gets off on it. Here's our first time playing it live. I'm cueing the singer:
Rock N Roll - Led Zeppelin Cover by The Tonics - YouTube

And whenever I heard someone say Jimmy Page played ANYTHING "sloppy" I assume that they will show me a solo of his caliber by posting a link to it. Jimmy Page's solos were incredible, and all the technical wankery of the thousands of artists who came after can't begin to match his originality, effectiveness, and raw power.

Page is sloppy, but it doesn't mean it's not beautiful. What he lacked in finesse, he made up for with attitude and EXCELLENT songwriting. His guitar playing doesn't come close to his creativity, IMO.

There's a certain something a person has to have to really be good at rock and roll. They have to have a real unhinged and dangerous quality, and a real honest sexuality. Rock and roll has been hygienically packaged for the masses by large corporations for far too long, causing people to get what it really is.

Rock and roll is an honest expression of rebellion. It's the blues turned up to 11. When it is safe, or follows a formula, it is no longer rock and roll.

We agree more than you think. The qualities you say are needed for rock and roll, aren't always the best qualities for virtuosity. You need the attitude for the show. But, if the songs had 30 chords in them, it would be harder for the individual players to pull it off and put on a show that reaks of energy and attitude.

Rock is never intended to follow a formula, but often times it does. Rock is Blues turned to 11, but Blues still follows a standard form. Money chords are used by everyone from the Sex Pistols to the Dixie Chicks. Each have a different message and feel, regardless of whether their songs have the same chords. The formula doesn't take away from that. It makes it easier to appeal to audiences.

 

[jive1]

I bet you I could do it. I mean shoot, my band learned 20 songs in two days in order to play our first performance as a group - as in we rehearsed on Sunday and Monday and then played out that Tuesday. At that rate we could of had 140 done in two weeks.

I'll put my faith in jmatt here to prove a point. If someone wants to send jmatt their set list of top 40/classic rock tunes and he can learn it in less than 2 weeks and prove it via video, I will pay the money from my next gig ($50 plus tips) to the charity of jmatt's choice.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

I'll put my faith in jmatt here to prove a point. If someone wants to send jmatt their set list of top 40/classic rock tunes and he can learn it in less than 2 weeks and prove it via video, I will pay the money from my next gig ($50 plus tips) to the charity of jmatt's choice.

Just let me find a way to record the stuff first!

But honestly, I'll do it if I can find a video recorder because this isn't a hard thing to do. It's less than three and a half songs a day - I'd like to think someone who's been playing for 40+ years could do this no problem.

Any other TB'ers who want to get in on this and already have a video recorder should speak up.

 

[Ben Noblit]

I am a 20-year-old college student, 5 years into being a bassist, with a very mediocre skill level. I am sure I have vastly less experience than most people on this thread,

A bandleader I know threw together a cover band to play a block party. Mostly modern
alternative rock, with some older stuff. 15 song set. We met the day before and learned the whole set cold (took all afternoon and evening). We had a short rehearsal the day of, and then absolutely nailed 14 of the 15 songs (We flubbed David Bowie's "Starman" pretty horribly).

My point is, if a bunch of college kids can learn 15 songs in a day, then I am absolutely positive that working pros with decades of experience can learn 50 in a week.

There are quite a few things I will never know, because I was born too late, but I don't think bluewhine knows them either.