I just did EXACTLY this (though the cost was less than $70) for a new Lowe conversion neck, and came out with the second best nut I've ever played!!! Good thing I had the foresight to buy 3 blanks!! Tools are always an investment...
-robert
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How much are bass guitars truly worth?
- Thread starter el_Bajo_Verde
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I just did EXACTLY this (though the cost was less than $70) for a new Lowe conversion neck, and came out with the second best nut I've ever played!!! Good thing I had the foresight to buy 3 blanks!! Tools are always an investment...
-robert
Thanks Eric! Let's see, my input materials cost on a typically "loaded" instrument is somewhere in the range of about $1500.
$500 in custom preamp, electronics and pickups.
$500 in hardware and components.
$500 in select lumber and exotic tops (void free, straight grain, dried, etc.)
NOTE that this is only the cost of actual items on the BASS itself. It excludes machining components and other things that break or need replacing on a periodic basis. Router bits, bandsaw blades, planer blades, and so on.
Separate from this, each item on the bass is made from a template that requires its own MDF or void-free plywood lumber. And then there are the costs of finish supplies.
It definitely adds up!
For this one
Wood = about $500
Electronics = about $300
Hardware = about $250
Finish = about $100
and then everything else added up to the rest.
And like Lonny mentioned, there's always bits and blades and other things to be replaced.
Respectfully although I agree that something is worth what people are willing to pay, what people are willing to pay does not make the largest difference when a company sets pricing. Generally speaking you have the cost of goods and expenses and the need to make a certain profit margin above and beyond that. For example, if the all-in cost to make a bass is $500 your margin means the dealer costs might be $800. For the store to meet their business plan it might need to sell to a customer for $1000. Those are just arbitrary numbers by the way. But if people will not pay $1000 for the bass what happens? They dont simply lower the price (except during a close-out sale). They change the design of the bass to lower the cost of making it, or they stop making it altogether. They can't simply lower the price from $1000 to whatever number the public wants. This logic by the way doesnt account for all the haggling fun and games and any differences between list price, minimum advertised price, and average street price. The price that counts is average street price.
From that standpoint the bass may not be worth making at all.
Thanks to both of you for the info -- that's very interesting as a point of reference and helps me to understand pricing a bit better. It's also nice to get some data among the is-it-worth-it discussion that this thread seems to have turned into.
A rule of thumb my jewelry store owner uncle told me years ago: Wood Grandfather clock retails for $2,000. Wholesale cost to him $1,000. Factory sells it for $1,000 so they have $500 in it. Total cost of the clock, including every piece of wood, glass, movement, etc. would be about $250, with $200 going for labor and $50 for utilities, insurance, etc. So the clock retailing for $2,000 has maybe $250 in parts. If a guitar is built overseas, you've got to figure in tariffs, taxes, shipping, middle-man, etc. My $2,200 Warwick probably has $1,000 in parts, labor, lumber, case, strings, etc. But it could have a lot less. None of my uncle's clock were made of Wenge or Ovangkol.
It didn't "turn into" that kind of thread, it started out as that kind of thread by the OP.
But the 1500$ bass will sound way better than its 300$ cousin... id take an mia ovee a korean or chinese made copy any day...
How much a human is worth?
Considering it is 57% water, rest is oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, calcium, potassium, etc. You can buy all the components for about $12.81. While real value may be $12.81, the perspective value assigned by different people to the same "item" may vary from 0 to +infinitum.
Considering it is 57% water, rest is oxygen, nitrogen, carbon, calcium, potassium, etc. You can buy all the components for about $12.81. While real value may be $12.81, the perspective value assigned by different people to the same "item" may vary from 0 to +infinitum.
- Jul 7, 2010
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- Endorsing Artist for: Duncan Pickups; Line6, Hipshot, GHS Strings, Somnium Guitars
A bass is worth whatever anyone wants to pay for it....period! I plus this statement +3 times over.
Also it is the "implied thought of well it was made 20-30yrs ago it must be good", well not always.....if fact some of the new mid range priced basses...(300-600) are made and crafted better than they were back then.
Just my 1-1/2 cents.
Also it is the "implied thought of well it was made 20-30yrs ago it must be good", well not always.....if fact some of the new mid range priced basses...(300-600) are made and crafted better than they were back then.
Just my 1-1/2 cents.
Wait...there are cars that don't require me to keep tilting the wheel to go straight? That's all I've ever known!
My mind is blown right now...
Haven't you ever noticed what when people pretend to drive, they always til the wheel side to side?
German, superior automobiles, superior instruments, I've driven many cars and played many basses.
Interesting. The title made me think of an apocalyptic world, where pretty much any musical instrument in decent Nick would be worth no less than half the amount of the best. Let's be honest - a squier jazz bass is objectively speaking half as good as a Fodera.. we can argue all we want about the 99% and etc but the truth is many of us still have a fairly large amount of coin to spend on ultimately frivolous items.
As many of you know - quality control coming out Asia's production factories has changed dramatically since the late 80s (when I started playing).
Companies like Lakland and Sadowsky, along with MTD, Brubaker and a few other higher-end "boutique" manufacturers that have developed Japanese, Chinese, Korean and Indonesian-made instruments have really raised the bar in terms of what you can buy these days for $500, $1000 and $1500. All in a mass-produced instrument.
I've learned a few things from my own bass-building adventures...we're all basically making stuff from the same trees. There isn't a magic Alembic forest. While the recipes going into the design and construction may vary, there are only so many ways to amplify a vibrating metal string. But each builder's ability to channel their inner Stradivarius, built on years of knowledge and experience - coupled with demand, operating costs and so forth - all dictates pricing factors. But I've also learned that for each boutique $3000+ bass I built and sold, it didn't matter. By and large, profits just aren't there for a small-volume builder.
I can't tell you how many builders who have had profiles and reviews in Bass Player that have come and gone over the years simply because it's such a narrow margin business. I believe Carey Nordstrand recently stopped his custom build shop to focus on pickup design work, which likely speaks to the same challenges inherent to instrument development.
Companies like Lakland and Sadowsky, along with MTD, Brubaker and a few other higher-end "boutique" manufacturers that have developed Japanese, Chinese, Korean and Indonesian-made instruments have really raised the bar in terms of what you can buy these days for $500, $1000 and $1500. All in a mass-produced instrument.
I've learned a few things from my own bass-building adventures...we're all basically making stuff from the same trees. There isn't a magic Alembic forest. While the recipes going into the design and construction may vary, there are only so many ways to amplify a vibrating metal string. But each builder's ability to channel their inner Stradivarius, built on years of knowledge and experience - coupled with demand, operating costs and so forth - all dictates pricing factors. But I've also learned that for each boutique $3000+ bass I built and sold, it didn't matter. By and large, profits just aren't there for a small-volume builder.
I can't tell you how many builders who have had profiles and reviews in Bass Player that have come and gone over the years simply because it's such a narrow margin business. I believe Carey Nordstrand recently stopped his custom build shop to focus on pickup design work, which likely speaks to the same challenges inherent to instrument development.
Any object is worth EXACTLY what someone else will pay for it, no more, no less.
Maybe if you played these basses you would know.
Any object is worth EXACTLY what someone else will pay for it, no more, no less.
Well, that's pretty much right.
The "worth" is determined by the buyer. I could say my bass was worth a million bucks. Which would be complete bullhockey... UNTIL someone paid me a million bucks for it, then it would be a fact.
To the OP... the question of "why" the wide range in prices among seemingly similar instruments is for all of the reasons stated. They're all wood and metal, but the manufacturing scales, sales channels, construction and design methodologies and target market are hugely varying.
I dunno. I've owned and still own a number of basses. A '73 P, a 2014 American Std Jazz, an Epi Jack Casady, and a '90 something Jerry Jones longhorn. Love 'em all.
But I just got a brand new Lākland Jazz build.... and it blows away everything else I've got or have ever had. NBD post to follow. $3300 and the best money I've ever spent on an instrument. Just sayin' is all.
But I just got a brand new Lākland Jazz build.... and it blows away everything else I've got or have ever had. NBD post to follow. $3300 and the best money I've ever spent on an instrument. Just sayin' is all.
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Just because one person might want to pay $5 for a high end bass, doesnt make the bass worth that amount. You get into the nebulous realm of how any given individual might value something. But wait a minute. We are talking about comparing the selling price of two different groups of instruments and we are addressing the question about why they are priced differently.
When you are selling a single used instrument then your first statement is entirely true. When you are talking about the selling price of new basses as set by the manufacturer then the statement should read "a bass is worth whatever the market is willing to pay for it."
