How much time do you spend jamming to a drum looo or Jan track?

[JRA]

Scales, chord tones, arpeggios, extended arpeggios, sight-reading, slap, speed work, song practice, muting.. obviously not in all one session but I mix up those aspects. I'd say its probably more 80/20. 20% being jamming as discussed in this thread.

cool beans! sounds good!

I'd take lines I'd created at home while jamming and then work them with the band. I figured that's what everyone did?

probably depends on the tunes involved and the band process/culture, but yeah: you get to hone/perfect when you're with the other players (in ways that are impossible at home).

 

[OregonMike]

Okay, I'm clearly the curmudgeon here, so I'll just say one more thing:

You damn kids get off of my lawn!

Well, true! But he also used "Then I feel guilty that I should be practicing technical work" So, I'm basically saying you can get some good technical work in playing to a loop. I'm only on the hellstrip! : )

 

[Brother Goose]

There are benefits to all forms of practice and jamming.

I will happily leg-wrestle anyone who disagrees.

 

[OldNARDGuy]

I welcome contrary opinions, but it seems you've decided you're right.

This is not an either or situation. Practice is the deliberate act of getting better at something. As you can see from my original post I am jamming with intent, working on rhythms, working on timing, working on phrasing, working on groove creation.

Jamming to jam tracks absolutely exercises harmony and theory, helps practice chord changes, soloing etc...

Let's agree to disagree

"jamming with intent" <<< The crux of the matter, IMHO.

 

[LBS-bass]

I think for some people "jamming" conjures up a very loose approach, whereas for others it's just a synonym for playing along with something. Perhaps because open jams have a reputation for being less than stellar experiences if you're not pretty much a beginner.

 

[Lownote38]

Which is why I said "outside of joining a band" in my post.

You can study harmony and theory all you want, but you need practice applying it on the instrument

Yep. With people. Not a band necessarily. Just getting some people together. There is no substitute for that.

 

[Lownote38]

I don't really follow why this would be true. I rarely jam to loops, but when I write music I often start with loops and go from there. In order to compose, I have to exercise all of these things, and I often compose over loops. So I think it's not so much a matter of what you're playing along with as much as how you're pushing yourself to move in a creative or otherwise useful way.

If you're just repeating phrases you already know, that's not going to teach you much except maybe how to tighten up, rhythmically. But you can play in a band and also never move outside of your comfort zone. It just depends on what you actually push yourself to accomplish.

I can play along with "iRealbook" and walk simple lines, or I can move for notes that are outside of the box in order to improve those skills. I am not sure how playing along with that is different from playing along with an actual drummer and pianist.

Composing is not practicing. It is an application of what you know. Practicing along with Real Book tunes could definitely be practicing, though. Especially if you include reading the melodies.

 

[WrapRough]

Yep. With people. Not a band necessarily. Just getting some people together. There is no substitute for that.

Respectfully disagree. Jam tracks are literally a substitute for that. There are many endeavours that can be practiced in a simulated environment when real-world practice is not available. Of course it is not as good as real-world, but real-world is not an option right now. Pilots use flight simulators, astronauts use simulators, hell even F1 drivers use games to help them learn the tracks better.

Anyway, you do you, and I'll do me

 

[AGCurry]

Respectfully disagree. Jam tracks are literally a substitute for that. There are many endeavours that can be practiced in a simulated environment when real-world practice is not available. Of course it is not as good as real-world, but real-world is not an option right now. Pilots use flight simulators, astronauts use simulators, hell even F1 drivers use games to help them learn the tracks better.

Anyway, you do you, and I'll do me

Yeah, I said I'd bow out of this discussion ... and sincerely, I'm not saying you shouldn't "do you."

But while playing along to a jam track may be valuable, it's not "literally a substitute" for making music with others; or, if it is a substitute, it's not an ideal one.

Why? To use your analogy: A pilot can crash a flight simulator if she makes a bad choice. A jam track continues happily unperturbed and uninspired by what you play. What's missing when you play along to a recorded piece is feedback. The feedback we get when playing with others can be smiles all around, a stink-eye from the drummer, or the band coming to a halt and the pianist asking WTH you're doing.

Now, as you're playing to a jam track, you are good enough to discern whether you are meeting the challenge, i.e., your "virtual" bandmates are smiling at you, great! My main concern is that some who read this thread may not have the same level of discernment and think that their path to greatness lies in this method.

 

[LBS-bass]

Composing is not practicing. It is an application of what you know. Practicing along with Real Book tunes could definitely be practicing, though. Especially if you include reading the melodies.

Composing isn't practicing, but it involves stretching your creative and improvisational skills, which is why I mentioned it. That's something that most of us would do well to include as part of our practice routine in whatever way we can.

 

[OregonMike]

Yeah, I said I'd bow out of this discussion ... and sincerely, I'm not saying you shouldn't "do you."

But while playing along to a jam track may be valuable, it's not "literally a substitute" for making music with others; or, if it is a substitute, it's not an ideal one.

Why? To use your analogy: A pilot can crash a flight simulator if she makes a bad choice. A jam track continues happily unperturbed and uninspired by what you play. What's missing when you play along to a recorded piece is feedback. The feedback we get when playing with others can be smiles all around, a stink-eye from the drummer, or the band coming to a halt and the pianist asking WTH you're doing.

Now, as you're playing to a jam track, you are good enough to discern whether you are meeting the challenge, i.e., your "virtual" bandmates are smiling at you, great! My main concern is that some who read this thread may not have the same level of discernment and think that their path to greatness lies in this method.

This is a good point w/r/t the communication between players. There's nothing like playing a part and having everyone look over at you with big smiles, nodding . It's a great feeling.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Yeah, I said I'd bow out of this discussion ... and sincerely, I'm not saying you shouldn't "do you."

But while playing along to a jam track may be valuable, it's not "literally a substitute" for making music with others; or, if it is a substitute, it's not an ideal one.

Why? To use your analogy: A pilot can crash a flight simulator if she makes a bad choice. A jam track continues happily unperturbed and uninspired by what you play. What's missing when you play along to a recorded piece is feedback. The feedback we get when playing with others can be smiles all around, a stink-eye from the drummer, or the band coming to a halt and the pianist asking WTH you're doing.

Now, as you're playing to a jam track, you are good enough to discern whether you are meeting the challenge, i.e., your "virtual" bandmates are smiling at you, great! My main concern is that some who read this thread may not have the same level of discernment and think that their path to greatness lies in this method.

You are completely missing the point of what is happening here.

First off, in no way did the OP call playing with loops a substitute for playing with people. Secondly, repetition is the key to learning music.

So what group of people is going to allow you to repeat a line 25, 50, 100 times so that you know it so well that you can’t get it wrong? If you are working on improvising over ii-V-I changes, what group of people is going to allow you to explore your ideas, explore your curiosity, get them into your hands when that process takes hundreds of repetitions. You can absolutely do that with a loop. This is what practicing is.

You are confusing practice with performance. In performance, you need to come ready to execute. If you show up to a rehearsal and you are fooling around practicing your ideas, you are simply wasting my time.

I have to say that more and more I find TalkBass of limited educational value.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Jamming to loops doesn't exercise harmony and theory, and it doesn't provide a real-world-like playing experience. It may help your ears and your facility, and it can be fun (as you stated twice). But when you're faced with your first/next time with other musicians, it will not matter that you can jam to loops. That's not what will be asked of you. At least 95% of what bassists do is provide a foundation for the other pieces. In a sense, you will be asked to provide the loop, and it needs to be steady and confident.

I just wish there was an "UNLIKE" button. This statement is ridiculous. Typical of old and backward ways of thinking.

That whole, "Do THIS thing THIS way or it's wrong" mentality just grinds my gears.

 

[AGCurry]

You are completely missing the point of what is happening here.

First off, in no way did the OP call playing with loops a substitute for playing with people. Secondly, repetition is the key to learning music.

So what group of people is going to allow you to repeat a line 25, 50, 100 times so that you know it so well that you can’t get it wrong? If you are working on improvising over ii-V-I changes, what group of people is going to allow you to explore your ideas, explore your curiosity, get them into your hands when that process takes hundreds of repetitions. You can absolutely do that with a loop. This is what practicing is.

You are confusing practice with performance. In performance, you need to come ready to execute. If you show up to a rehearsal and you are fooling around practicing your ideas, you are simply wasting my time.

I have to say that more and more I find TalkBass of limited educational value.

I really have not meant to offend anyone! The OP (who did, by the way, ask for opinions) did not say "playing," he used the word jamming. Perhaps I don't understand the word jamming the way that others do. When I was in my younger days, jamming meant mutual improvisation for fun and yes, to improve one's chops. We went to jam sessions, and they were absolutely worthwhile... but practicing was done alone, to build technique or learn songs in order to play them with others. If the meaning of jamming has changed, I apologize to everyone for being the out-of-touch curmudgeon that I am.

My orchestra performed one of Bach's Brandenburg concertos in May. I practiced by playing along with a sound file of the other parts so that I wouldn't embarrass myself in rehearsal or performance. Although it might have been fun and of some musical value, I didn't jam to it.

As for "limited educational value:" Sometimes I learn from you and sometimes you learn from me. The way that happens is to respectfully exchange information and opinions.

 

[OregonMike]

I just wish there was an "UNLIKE" button. This statement is ridiculous. Typical of old and backward ways of thinking.

That whole, "Do THIS thing THIS way or it's wrong" mentality just grinds my gears.

Agreed. It seems the very nature of forums is to take the OP and either fill in the blanks or interpret the question to fit an answer you want to give. The deeper you go, the worse it gets.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I really have not meant to offend anyone! The OP (who did, by the way, ask for opinions) did not say "playing," he used the word jamming. Perhaps I don't understand the word jamming the way that others do. When I was in my younger days, jamming meant mutual improvisation for fun and yes, to improve one's chops. We went to jam sessions, and they were absolutely worthwhile... but practicing was done alone, to build technique or learn songs in order to play them with others. If the meaning of jamming has changed, I apologize to everyone for being the out-of-touch curmudgeon that I am.

My orchestra performed one of Bach's Brandenburg concertos in May. I practiced by playing along with a sound file of the other parts so that I wouldn't embarrass myself in rehearsal or performance. Although it might have been fun and of some musical value, I didn't jam to it.

As for "limited educational value:" Sometimes I learn from you and sometimes you learn from me. The way that happens is to respectfully exchange information and opinions.

Just stop being so hung up on the word "jam" and you should be okay.

Also if you just work on Bach then you don't have to worry about being harmonically creative. You just play what's stuck in front of you and you don't have to come up with anything on your own. However, If you need to create a bassline, "jamming" on whatever groove you're working on can help you and when you find it, you can just incorporate it into the song you're working on.

You can't always make a bunch of assumptions on what people are doing just based on your own isolated experiences.

And I wasn't offended. Just puzzled by the apparently limited perspective. But you're a classical guy so that explains a lot

 

[WrapRough]

Perhaps I don't understand the word jamming the way that others do. When I was in my younger days, jamming meant mutual improvisation for fun and yes, to improve one's chops. We went to jam sessions, and they were absolutely worthwhile... but practicing was done alone, to build technique or learn songs in order to play them with others. If the meaning of jamming has changed, I apologize to everyone for being the out-of-touch curmudgeon that I am.

That is definitely the meaning of the term jamming, so either I'm also old or you're not out of touch.

However, I think jamming has evolved with the advent of computers. Now it's possible to recreate that experience to some degree. I don't need to find s drummer, keys, and guitars players for me to practice with other "musicians". I can program their parts. Of course it's not the same, and I don't think anyone would even dare argue that it is. Although it loses out on "realness", it also provides benefits like those outlined above by SpinDoctor.

So I do see it as jamming, but as I said above, I am doing it with intent, with the specific purpose of trying to improve certain aspects of my playing. Playing with others is hands down the best thing you can do as a musician of any level. But honestly, how many times a week are you doing that? Once? You could practice to jam tracks three hours a day, every day, if you so desired.

Today I played around with grooves based on extended Ionian and Dorian arpeggios for 30 minutes along to a jam track. Specific practice goal, but still jamming IMO.

I think there's a place for both, and dare I say it, even synergy.

 

[AGCurry]

Just stop being so hung up on the word "jam" and you should be okay.

Also if you just work on Bach then you don't have to worry about being harmonically creative. You just play what's stuck in front of you and you don't have to come up with anything on your own. However, If you need to create a bassline, "jamming" on whatever groove you're working on can help you and when you find it, you can just incorporate it into the song you're working on.

You can't always make a bunch of assumptions on what people are doing just based on your own isolated experiences.

And I wasn't offended. Just puzzled by the apparently limited perspective. But you're a classical guy so that explains a lot

Doctor, I do play by ear and have a long history of playing nonclassical music (soul, R&B, rock and roll, country, western, bluegrass, jazz), and I compose and arrange too in nonclassical music. BUT I did come up in a time when there were no loops and jam tracks, so yeah, I'm out of touch. Now that @WrapRough has elaborated on what he's doing, I say more power to him.

 

[SteveCS]

And I wasn't offended. Just puzzled by the apparently limited perspective. But you're a classical guy so that explains a lot

Why the continual petty insults against clsssical folks? It makes you look like the one with limited perspective.

 

[Spin Doctor]

BUT I did come up in a time when there were no loops and jam tracks

You never put a needle into a record groove over and over? Hit the rewind button on a cassettes player? None of that?

Only sheet music, huh...