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How To Fire a Band Member
- Thread starter Capt.Obvious
- Start date
Goalee, Goalee, Goalee. I thought you understood.
EVERY band is a disco band, when I'm laying down the groove.
Holy crap! Can't believe I didn't think of that!
Way too many shows on the calendar for him to buy it though. Still great idea lol
maybe try to help the drummer learn some new things first .. !!?? give him some examples of what you wanna hear ... give him some latin stuff to work on ... try to give examples and explain that he can have a great affect on the mood of the music via dynamics ... or ' less is more ' .. !? you say he's a Drum Machine ..
i like drum machines because they keep a good steady beat and i can do whatever i want to do ' around ' them ! if he doesn't 'get it ' ,... maybe you need to find a different angle/approach ... ? figure out how to share your knowledge and musical feelings ... ( i teach lessons , so i understand the blank stare . ! )
but , on the flip side ... if he just doesn't 'care' at all about improving for the sake of the band/music ... then i'd turn my suggestions into ultimatums ... !
i like drum machines because they keep a good steady beat and i can do whatever i want to do ' around ' them ! if he doesn't 'get it ' ,... maybe you need to find a different angle/approach ... ? figure out how to share your knowledge and musical feelings ... ( i teach lessons , so i understand the blank stare . ! )
but , on the flip side ... if he just doesn't 'care' at all about improving for the sake of the band/music ... then i'd turn my suggestions into ultimatums ... !
Difficult situation, if you were familiar with the drummers talent or lack of it, I dont think you should have joined the group in the first place , its just not cool to turn the rest of the band against him now , maby in a year or so down the road if its really not working out I gues it would be ok.
As far as "tactfully" kicking someone out of the band. The following cowardly approach has worked for me in the past, the band "breaks up" for a few months, then re forms without the problem person.
First off, have you spoken to him about how well your gig without him went? If you enthuse about it, and anyb regular audience members say how well it ant, then you actually book a few more gigs like that, he'll be more receptive to the idea that his position is precarious.
It already sounds as if he knows.
Whatever, you won't be firing him to replace him with someone else, so his ego should suffer a tiny bit less.
It already sounds as if he knows.
Whatever, you won't be firing him to replace him with someone else, so his ego should suffer a tiny bit less.
Wow, better yet, just all the band members move to another state.
This is truly the most humane approach, but frankly I don't think he has the time to devote to woodshedding again, he's a professional family man, build Boeing jets for his day job. Also he travels a lot, he's like management. He isn't uner any illusions that he can take it to the next level, or go on tour or be full time. It's kind of just a matter of time. =(
jive1
Commercial User
It's a tricky situation because it's a subjective issue. It's a matter of taste, and that makes things harder to justify.
If the guy was blowing off gigs and rehearsals, unable to perform the material, compromising the band by engaging in illegal activities, etc. then it's easy to fire someone. You have a justifiable reason that's easy for folks to get behind. But, taste is a subjective thing and one of the reasons you have millions of people that hate Justin Beiber and millions who love him.
You say he can't play a Latin beat. Do you play Sambas and Bossas? If not, who cares?
Do you want to play Latin material in the future? Well that's a matter of taste. If that's the direction the band wants to go, then it's a real issue. If not, then let it go. I work with lots of drummers who have difficulty with certain beats. I just don't use them on gigs where I need that groove.
I'm assuming the drummer was good enough when he became a member of the band, so when you say he's holding back your sound, what is the issue or effect? Is he unable to play an arrangement? If so, then it's less subjective. But does he know the arrangement? Have you guys talked to him about his dynamics? If there a musical direction the band wants to take that's different from what the drummer can deliver, that's one thing. If there's a musical direction that you want to go in, but the drummer or the rest of the band doesn't then that's another thing.
IME, IMO, you can always find someone in the audience to justify your position. Even the crappiest singers and musicians can find someone in the audience who thinks they are great. Also, I wouldn't let the feedback from a single gig affect the direction of the band. If it's a trend, that's a different matter. But, a single gig could be an exception. One of my best nights was when I fronted a band and sang all night. Floor was packed, crowd stayed until the end, bar sold well, line out the door to get in, and musically we were 'on'. But, I wasn't going to justify firing the singer who couldn't make the gig and making me the lead because of that night. That's because I know I have had more nights where I was blah or average. Thus, I tend to avoid gigs where I have to sing all night even though I had a few gigs where I really lit it up. The trends related to my singing were that it was mediocre, while the exceptions were when my singing appeared great. I use the word 'appeared' because I don't think I was singing that much better, just better received.
If the guy was blowing off gigs and rehearsals, unable to perform the material, compromising the band by engaging in illegal activities, etc. then it's easy to fire someone. You have a justifiable reason that's easy for folks to get behind. But, taste is a subjective thing and one of the reasons you have millions of people that hate Justin Beiber and millions who love him.
You say he can't play a Latin beat. Do you play Sambas and Bossas? If not, who cares?
Do you want to play Latin material in the future? Well that's a matter of taste. If that's the direction the band wants to go, then it's a real issue. If not, then let it go. I work with lots of drummers who have difficulty with certain beats. I just don't use them on gigs where I need that groove.
I'm assuming the drummer was good enough when he became a member of the band, so when you say he's holding back your sound, what is the issue or effect? Is he unable to play an arrangement? If so, then it's less subjective. But does he know the arrangement? Have you guys talked to him about his dynamics? If there a musical direction the band wants to take that's different from what the drummer can deliver, that's one thing. If there's a musical direction that you want to go in, but the drummer or the rest of the band doesn't then that's another thing.
IME, IMO, you can always find someone in the audience to justify your position. Even the crappiest singers and musicians can find someone in the audience who thinks they are great. Also, I wouldn't let the feedback from a single gig affect the direction of the band. If it's a trend, that's a different matter. But, a single gig could be an exception. One of my best nights was when I fronted a band and sang all night. Floor was packed, crowd stayed until the end, bar sold well, line out the door to get in, and musically we were 'on'. But, I wasn't going to justify firing the singer who couldn't make the gig and making me the lead because of that night. That's because I know I have had more nights where I was blah or average. Thus, I tend to avoid gigs where I have to sing all night even though I had a few gigs where I really lit it up. The trends related to my singing were that it was mediocre, while the exceptions were when my singing appeared great. I use the word 'appeared' because I don't think I was singing that much better, just better received.
I've decided to work up some fake obituaries. I plan to have us all die tragically in a plane crash or something.
Problem solved.
Be careful you ignore his advantages. I would suggest a sit down, and talk about what he likes to play and his approach, <First>. Then talk about what the band needs, from a drummer. Let him talk, and ask him questions like, "do you feel that way, too? Do you see that need, too?" If he answers negatively or digs in his heels, then he is firing himself, and that is the goal, if he won't step up. The trick to "firing" is to let them see the situation through other people's eyes, and let him describe how he sees it, then try to bring the two together, then see if he will commit to doing the work. Don't forget, you could well be overlooking something that the drummer sees. If he says he can't or won't then you are not firing him - he is talking himself out of the band. Then you can remain friends
As of now you're in 'band member no man's land'. You like him enough to not fire him, but want to go a different direction musically. Although, you may have your answer with the multiple directions thing above; 2 groups, same essential folks.
FYI - Be prepared for whatever fallout may occur regardless of the band outcome - by opening this door, hereafter the relationships will likely be diffferent between you, the other members, and the drummer. I sincerely hope not, but my interpersonal experience tends to side that way...
Thanks Jive, this is quite a lot to think about. I suppose you're correct, ultimately it is mostly a subjective judgment call. All I can do is point to how receptive the audience was on the trio show then they are after the full band shows. It's palpable.
Here's the portion of the email I got from her the day after our trio show. I NEVER got a thank you email like this one after any of our shows and only wish I had hung around to collect my accolades and/or groupies. heh I had to scoot out because I had an early rehearsal with another project in the morning.
You also didn't get to hear all the nice things said about you after you left. People were raving about you! They LOVED and I mean LOOOOOVED the double bass. It looked awesome and your playing impressed everyone. I can't tell you how many people commented on how well you played and how well you blended with the rest of the music. Even my dad, who is a big grump that is hard of hearing, commented how he could actually make out all the instruments and how beautiful the bass sounded. I've never heard him say that. Several people asked if we could do a set just like that again. They also booked us again on Feb. 19th. And we made pretty good tips and sold 3 CDs! And several people are planning on going to the lo-fi show too. Pretty successful night! So high five!
What a wonderful ego boost but also simultaneously a big let down because of what it means musically. It appears we have real evidence that we simply sound better sans overly loud drums.
You're ultimately correct it's the BL's call, it's her direction and her original music. All I can do is be honest with my subjective opinions, lest I do her a disservice. Being honest feels like being an ass sometimes. =(
So this guy helped found the band, got you in, no one else has expressed a problem with his drumming, and you say stuff like:
"I'm the more experienced musician in the band and responsible for most of the bigger shows or stage gigs that we land."
And
"I'm ultimately doing the BL/singer a disservice if I didn't mention my clinical assessments of the sound."
Plus you dont have a job and play disco?!
Hmmm more and more i am siding with this drummer and thinking you should start a duet with your ego.
"I'm the more experienced musician in the band and responsible for most of the bigger shows or stage gigs that we land."
And
"I'm ultimately doing the BL/singer a disservice if I didn't mention my clinical assessments of the sound."
Plus you dont have a job and play disco?!
Hmmm more and more i am siding with this drummer and thinking you should start a duet with your ego.
I'm like most artists I know. I oscillate between periods of supreme confidence and soul crushing self-doubt. I ASSUME that's normal anyway.
I make each of those statements with objective reasons not worth enumerating, but I'm confident in my assessment. I just have a bit more experience performing music with the possible exception of the guitar man, who also went to an arts college for music. The singer was a professional model before taking singing seriously. Meh, it is what it is.
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