How To Fire a Band Member

[Capt.Obvious]

dingdingding

Not instrumental at all frankly. That's not in the equation really.

 

[Session1969]

No good situation comes easy. I'd work with him. If you fire him, say goodbye to his mom. What would you expect ?

 

[Capt.Obvious]

No good situation comes easy. I'd work with him. If you fire him, say goodbye to his mom. What would you expect ?

Oh it's the singers mom that is the jazz vocalist and booked with her and Cascade Jazz at Emerald Downs already. I'm like a second call bass man for them but I'll take it!

I suspect this will be easier than I'm imagining as the drummer is such a nice guy. He's smart and might suspect all of this already. I'll suggest working with him first, if he's not receptive to devoting more time, then he might bow out himself and save face.

 

[the yeti]

As a TB reg and someone that has routinely recommended firing X band member, often for transgressions no greater than bad hair, I'm ashamed to admit I don't actually know how to go about firing anyone.

I'm struggling with the idea of just how to fire the drummer in an originals band I play in. It gets more tricky because he was in the band before me and enthusiastically voted for me after they had auditions. That meant a lot to the BL/vocalist and he certainly helped me get on board...

Ultimately I'd be doing her and the music a disservice if I didn't raise my drummer concerns right?

Thank you for your indulgence.

raise your concerns.

you don't have to worry about how to fire someone because you're not the bandleader so it's not your place to fire anyone. raise your concerns and let the bandleader do their job. keep in mind that doing their job may amount to "thanks for raising your concerns".

to your direct question- if you need to fire someone you say "hey bill, i need to talk to you. things aren't working out, your performance hasn't really improved since we talked about it last. it's time for us to part ways." or some other no nonsense and truthful yet polite collection of words. don't be vague, don't apologize.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

I sympathize with you because i was there myself... kind of. I played in a cover band once when i was in grad school. One of my best friends brought me into it, left for the summer while we practiced, then he came back and was completely out of it and not that good to begin with. We decided to fire him. The band played a few parties after that before i decided to move on. I feel like what i did was a dick move and though it was better for the band i regret it. Sometimes there is more to consider than how good the band is, that's all. Wise people learn from others mistakes so i hope this helps.

 

[jive1]

T.... It appears we have real evidence that we simply sound better sans overly loud drums.....

For that crowd, for that show. I'd give it a few more tries before coming to that conclusion.

Crowds are not monolithic. They can vary, the individuals within can vary, and their tastes on that day may vary. That's one of the reasons along with budget are why more and more bands are going with more flexible configurations that can range from a solo acoustic musician to a 9 piece band with horns and strings. Some band configurations fit some situations better than others. Back when I did more solo acoustic stuff, I did a few gigs at an American Legion post. The older folks at the bar there preferred the lower volumes and the old Country tunes I'd mix in. But, if I tried to do that at the local Country bar on a Friday night when people are looking to dance, it would have been a fail. I would have to have bass and drums to give the folks something to dance to, and my strumming on the guitar wasn't going to do it.

Anyway, there's no reason you can't go with a more flexible arrangement with your current band to better fit various situations. You don't need to fire the guy, just don't use him on gigs where the trio is preferred. And if the trend dictates that the trio sound is better suited to most situations, you've done your due diligence to see what the band's musical direction should be.

 

[Session1969]

Oh it's the singers mom that is the jazz vocalist and booked with her and Cascade Jazz at Emerald Downs already. I'm like a second call bass man for them but I'll take it!

I suspect this will be easier than I'm imagining as the drummer is such a nice guy. He's smart and might suspect all of this already. I'll suggest working with him first, if he's not receptive to devoting more time, then he might bow out himself and save face.

That seems reasonable.

 

[delta7fred]

I fired a guitarist (in 1971) who was instrumental in getting me into the band but he was holding us back (band decision not just mine).

The guy never practised at home so made the same foul ups every gig. I explained the situation to him and he had to admit that he was a lazy-ass and he deserved it. It did him the world of good, he hit the woodshed and really improved, he now has his own band who are gigging regularly. I see him around occasionally and we are still on good terms.

 

[Capt.Obvious]

raise your concerns.

you don't have to worry about how to fire someone because you're not the bandleader so it's not your place to fire anyone. raise your concerns and let the bandleader do their job. keep in mind that doing their job may amount to "thanks for raising your concerns".

to your direct question- if you need to fire someone you say "hey bill, i need to talk to you. things aren't working out, your performance hasn't really improved since we talked about it last. it's time for us to part ways." or some other no nonsense and truthful yet polite collection of words. don't be vague, don't apologize.

Good advice right there. I'm mainly curious of technique because I suspect the BL will want ideas on just how to do it. Ultimately, you're correct. I did my job, now just wait for the blow back.

 

[Capt.Obvious]

I sympathize with you because i was there myself... kind of. I played in a cover band once when i was in grad school. One of my best friends brought me into it, left for the summer while we practiced, then he came back and was completely out of it and not that good to begin with. We decided to fire him. The band played a few parties after that before i decided to move on. I feel like what i did was a dick move and though it was better for the band i regret it. Sometimes there is more to consider than how good the band is, that's all. Wise people learn from others mistakes so i hope this helps.

Mrokern said to remember "this is show business, not show friends."

But they're also my friends!

 

[40Hz]

Think it through carefully.

Raising the topic of possible firings is a calculated risk. Much like it is whenever someone decides to start a mutiny.

If the rest of the crew is with you, you prevail.

If the rest of the crew isn't - it's you that hang.

However, if you ever have to 86 someone, follow all the above advice about doing it cleanly, honestly, and quickly.

Here's a story about a firing I was indirectly involved with. I think it's a textbook example of how not to do it:

Moons ago, I replaced the bassist for an all original group where said bass player was one of the founding members. They had been together for better than two years and it was becoming pretty obvious this guy was holding them back musically. So through a friend, I had been introduced, passed the audition, and was asked to join up. And I started rehearsing with them the following week on a twice weekly basis.

About the third week in, I was getting into my car after the rehearsal and I saw the other guy sitting in his car parked across the street. Not thinking anything (I figured he either came to pick up some equipment or some money the band owed him) and really not knowing what to say (can you say "awkward?") I waved and said: "How's it going?" He waved back and said "Good." So I nodded, said "take care," and then drove away.

Found out the next day the band never told him he was being replaced. The BL merely told him they were going to take a few weeks off to get some writing done. The original bass player knew nothing about me being his replacement. And he had simply dropped by that evening with a couple of six packs in case the BL was home and not doing anything...

Next day, one of the guitarists said to me, "Well...we had to tell him." Which floored me because I thought they already had told him three weeks earlier.

Several years later I ran into that same bass player. He was working with another group and had improved tremendously. Enough so that he was was easily as good if not better than most of what was out there.

When he was on break, we had a beer together. He told me he didn't have anything against me personally. And that he knew he wasn't good enough at that point - although he was doing everything he could to get up to speed as fast as possible when the ax came down. And how getting dumped was maybe the best thing that could have happened to him since it gave him the final kick in the pants he probably needed to sit down and work at getting really good. So in that respect, they did him a favor.

But he also said he'd never forgive the rest of the guys in the band for handling it the way they did. Because, as he put it, it was a cruel and very cowardly way to go about it.

And I'd have to agree with him.

So don't ever do it that way.

 

[AltGrendel]

Ask him if he'd mind if you guys searched around for a replacement. If you've outlined you (the band's) position and he can't change his for whatever reason, it seems to me that it's time to start looking for a replacement while paying him as a sub.

EDIT:

I gave too simplistic an answer, I think 40Hz and others have it.

 

[keyofnight]

Dang. Your drummer is like Sasquatch.

 

[Matt Ides]

Seriously, just book more trio gigs and treat it as a side project. If it takes off, no action is really needed. From what I can tell from your comments the magic was the drumless trio.

 

[aetheldrea]

If you just want to get rid of him and not replace him, schedule a bunch extra rehearsals every week. Since he has a life, he won't be able to make them, so he'll either quit or you'll have grounds to fire him. With any luck, you won't even have to do the rehearsals yourself.

 

[Liam Wald]

Be honest and be specific about the issues. Make it about the issues and not about the person. Treat the person the way you would like to be treated, allowing them to maintain their self-esteem and dignity. Be cool and don't burn bridges.

 

[40Hz]

Seriously, just book more trio gigs and treat it as a side project. If it takes off, no action is really needed. From what I can tell from your comments the magic was the drumless trio.

Brill!

Y'know...sometimes the possibly best solution is staring you right in the face...

 

[Thehound]

I don't believe in firing a band member. If something ain't right and can't be fixed I quit. You get fired from a job, not artistic expression.
Disclaimer- this is only my opinion I no longer rely on music for cash or income, but for the feeling you get when you lay down a tight monster groove with other musicians.

 

[Liam Wald]

If you just want to get rid of him and not replace him, schedule a bunch extra rehearsals every week. Since he has a life, he won't be able to make them, so he'll either quit or you'll have grounds to fire him. With any luck, you won't even have to do the rehearsals yourself.

No offense but I see this kind of manipulative maneuver as disingenuous and cheap.

 

[Gaolee]

I've decided to work up some fake obituaries. I plan to have us all die tragically in a plane crash or something.

Problem solved.

If you can work in a Cadillac convertible, a Samoan lawyer, UFOs, Elvis, the Dalai Lama, helicopters, a police blockade, international diplomacy, and a toy poodle, it's a winner!