How To Fire a Band Member

[Fat Steve]

whatever you do DO NOT mention the bad mic technique to the singer.

Right? I'm guessing they've already told the drummer about the conversation with the singer. Any minute now the pink slip will be arriving.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

I'll defer to you guys, sounds legit to me and I suppose that's why you're staff here, you actually KNOW what your talking about. I'll mention all of this to her next rehearsal and make sure she feels shame for cupping the mic. Just enough that she cries a little, not like a full on mental breakdown, just a few tears.

Thanks! I'll let you know how it goes!

Now that you've got her riled up, you ought to start wearing one of these...

or one of these...

and tell her to look at this...
Stop Cupping the Microphone

 

[Fat Steve]

Now that you've got her riled up, you ought to start wearing one of these...
View attachment 699394

Approves!

 

[Capt.Obvious]

Right? I'm guessing they've already told the drummer about the conversation with the singer. Any minute now the pink slip will be arriving.

After reading the advice, I quickly sent her another email asking her to forget all the bullpoopie about the drummer, explained to her that I'll politely contribute my opinion but ultimately it's her baby, her sound.

Jive mentioned that being a band leader takes a lot of behind the scenes work, I wasn't seeing it from her perspective. The truth is Jim is a damn good drummer, she went through a few to find him.

So ya, I'm just going to bend over and take it from now on. If she say's I'm too busy and to play more legato, so be it. At least as long as I want to work with her.

 

[40Hz]

After reading the advice, I quickly sent her another email asking her to forget all the bullpoopie about the drummer, explained to her that I'll politely contribute my opinion but ultimately it's her baby, her sound.

Jive mentioned that being a band leader takes a lot of behind the scenes work, I wasn't seeing it from her perspective. The truth is Jim is a damn good drummer, she went through a few to find him.

So ya, I'm just going to bend over and take it from now on. If she say's I'm too busy and to play more legato, so be it. At least as long as I want to work with her.

Just out of curiosity...are you still working with her?

 

[Capt.Obvious]

Now that you've got her riled up, you ought to start wearing one of these...
View attachment 699394
or one of these...
View attachment 699396
View attachment 699395

and tell her to look at this...
Stop Cupping the Microphone

Just out of curiosity...are you still working with her?

I'm assuming yes but who knows, they're probably working up a good way to fire me. I'll point them to this thread for advice.

 

[40Hz]

I'm assuming yes but who knows, they're probably working up a good way to fire me. I'll point them to this thread for advice.

Well...there's always the possibility if she decides to, you can point her to this thread where most of the TB community gently ripped you a new orifice for how you handled things.

If you do, however, let me know so I can delete my less than stellar review of her video before she sees it.

 

[Capt.Obvious]

Well...there's always the possibility if she decides to, you can point her to this thread where most of the TB community gently ripped you a new orifice for how you handled things.

If you do, however, let me know so I can delete my less than stellar review of her video before she sees it.

Wait! What? There was a less than stellar review?!

 

[kalanb]

I may be late to the thread but I say this a few days ago and wanted to share a similar situation. Thankfully, it didn't turn out like the OP's. Joined the band a few months ago and the drummer has timing issues and really only has one beat/feel. (The music has a lot of space and I often play whole and half notes, so I can't keep time as well as if I was playing quarter and eighth notes) A few weeks ago I suggested that we play with a metronome, and we sounded a lot better. The next day, I called (not emailed) and told the BL how good we sounded the night before. He asked what I though made us sound better and I said that playing with a metronome made a huge difference. I then said I was concerned because I didn't think the drummer and I were able to lock in. At this point, he let me know that he was aware of the issue and said the drummer was still a beginner but was taking lessons and practicing. He appreciated me bringing it up and we agreed to talk about the issue again in a few weeks.

The main take away is to talk to the BL. Don't come out with accusations about a player, but state your concerns as it relates to the music. Had the OP talked about a lack of dynamics within the songs or nuances that were being drowned out, it could have lead to a potentially fruitful conversation. It also gives you a chance to gauge the BL's response to see if they're receptive to hearing what you have to say.

ETA: Not trying to be critical of the OP, but I thought my experience could be instructive to any folks in a similar situation.

 

[Gaolee]

I'll defer to you guys, sounds legit to me and I suppose that's why you're staff here, you actually KNOW what your talking about. I'll mention all of this to her next rehearsal and make sure she feels shame for cupping the mic. Just enough that she cries a little, not like a full on mental breakdown, just a few tears.

Thanks! I'll let you know how it goes!

If that doesn't work, there's probably some handy gasoline and matches around somewhere.

 

[delta7fred]

Sorry OP that it backfired on you, it just goes to show that not everyone sees things the same way.

I can be an outspoken SOB at times but usually try and be diplomatic in band situations. In my experience bands are very much like females, you can think what you want but be very careful what you say.

I was in a side project (with guys I have known for decades) a while back that had a load of issues, two of them were that the guitarist always sped up during solos and the drummer always followed him.

I tried holding the drummer back - he wasn't listening to the bass, and tried being diplomatic by saying "we" always sped up during the songs which just got ignored, the other 3 either didn't notice or didn't care.

Not wanting to burn any bridges or loose friends I waited until a lull in gigs was coming up to give them time to find another bass player and made the excuse that my main band was getting busier and I didn't have time for both bands. I honoured the gigs we had booked and left under good terms (apart from guitarist's wife - another issue).

I didn't hear from them for a few months until we were both on the same bill at a festival. The rhythm guitarist had swapped to bass and you guessed it, every song sped up just the same.

 

[Capt.Obvious]

@Capt.Obvious


Minor thought: I've never been in a group where the bass player was anything but the lowest man on the totem pole - no matter how good he was - if he wasn't also the BL, or lead singer, or a major songwriter for the group. Which tells me most band members don't see the average bass player's contribution (purely as the bass player) as being all that crucial or irreplaceable. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that's the way it seems to be.

It also pays to sometimes remember that a bass player is probably the most easily replaced member in any group. And there are plenty of replacements out there to choose from.


-----
Addendum: if it's any consolation, I listened to both of the videos you posted and wasn't impressed by either the vocals, their far too laid back delivery, the complete absence of phrasing and dynamics, nor the stage presence of the singer herself.

She's certainly a lovely looking woman with a cool name and a pleasant enough voice. And it seems she is capable of writing and performing an acceptable pop song in a workmanlike manner - if the live video was indicative of what her music and shows are usually like. But hardly hit material or a star's performance by any stretch.

Or so I think anyway. YMMV.

I'm guessing you don't play any jazz. The bass, double bass specifically, is sort of THE instrument in the jazz band. That thumping, walking, string bass sound IS jazz. The drums are just accenting or coloring the groove set by the bass.

But yea, she's trying to do a more pop thing where a drum set just looks good on stage, hopefully sounds good too. I agree with your assessment for the most part. I kind of envisioned the first studio gig as just another vanity project. But she does have, as you say, a "pleasant" voice. She can also write. Simple progressions perhaps but it works for what she comes up with melodically.

I disagree with "It also pays to sometimes remember that a bass player is probably the most easily replaced member in any group. And there are plenty of replacements out there to choose from."

The bass note in any song, since the beginning of western music, is arguably the most important note. It's the foundation or root of the tree of the harmony! If you want to make a go at band without a competent melodic low end specialist, good luck.



Maybe I'm a bit spoiled with my double bass or the Seattle area, but I don't see this at all. In my experience, there's fewer actual bass players out there than anything else. Just fine by me! Sure there's a few guitar guys that can hack out a bass line when needed, but god help you if you need to play Chameleon all of the sudden.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

The bass note in any song, since the beginning of western music, is arguably the most important note. It's the foundation or root of the tree of the harmony! If you want to make a go at band without a competent melodic low end specialist, good luck.

Edit: Skip over the first few seconds of guitar tuning.

 

[ChrisB2]

And tell her to go ahead and have her stupid husband do all the tracking because of course HE's better than any dumbass "side musician" they could hire.

I feel this.

OP, in hindsight it's obvious your particular choice of approach was too forward for this project, and maybe for any project in some people's eyes, but her reaction to you was much more inappropriate and abrasive.

She basically treated you like an easily replaceable machine; like an object. "My blender stopped working so I bought a new one and threw the old one away."

If you can't provide some input you're just a tool, a drone. "Shut up and play bass."

I may not have handled it how you did, can't honestly say, but if I had, her attitude in her response to my concerns would be very difficult for me to accept.

You mentioned that from now on you will bend over and take it. If the project is worth it to you, fine, but I agree with your assessment....

Good luck.

 

[ChrisB2]

whatever you do DO NOT mention the bad mic technique to the singer.

Hey, don't spoil MY fun!! I was looking forward to the "singer raged after mic critique last rehearse" post...

 

[hrodbert696]

When I first read the OP, I took for granted that the whole band was in agreement about the drummer not fitting and the question was only how to go about firing him. Apparently I was mistaken. "How do I get the band to agree to fire the drummer" is a very different question from "how do I go about firing the drummer."

 

[ChrisB2]

^^^ true, but as a generic question, the thread title has produced a lot of very interesting responses....

 

[Gaolee]

Maybe I'm a bit spoiled with my double bass or the Seattle area, but I don't see this at all. In my experience, there's fewer actual bass players out there than anything else. Just fine by me! Sure there's a few guitar guys that can hack out a bass line when needed, but god help you if you need to play Chameleon all of the sudden.

And as a person who doesn't even play a bass player convincingly on TV, I'm perfectly OK with the whole situation out here, too. Don't tell anybody. Especially my bandmates who haven't figured it out yet.

However, bass players are actually gods. That's something else other band members have a tough time figuring out. We only tolerate them when it suits our purposes.

 

[jwilson67]

When I first read the OP, I took for granted that the whole band was in agreement about the drummer not fitting and the question was only how to go about firing him. Apparently I was mistaken. "How do I get the band to agree to fire the drummer" is a very different question from "how do I go about firing the drummer."

It's either that or she could just be a bit of a megalomaniac.

 

[40Hz]

It's either that or she could just be a bit of a megalomaniac.

To be a singer-songwriter you kinda need to have a bigger than average ego. Especially if you're merely good (as opposed to exceptional) at it.

The comment that she could just junk the entire band and retire to the basement with hubby and loop and drum program everything would be more of a concern to me. Because that's not ego talking. That's a flat out "FU! I don't need anybody!" statement. And those are usually coming out of someone who has no real respect for, or appreciation of, anyone's opinions, talents or skills but their own. Which are generally limited.

I also hate to stereotype...but...I've run into similar attitudes when dealing with many female "solo artists." (As in Solo and Artist with a capital S and A.) They don't think in ways that use any indefinite articles. There's no "the" or "a" or "an" in their vocabulary. It's all "my" "me" and "mine" -or- "you" and "yours." Everything has to specifically belong to someone. There's no such thing as collective ownership or credit - of anything.

The other thing I've seen happen when dealing with that type of person is the habit of erratically and arbitrarily fluctuating between insisting when something in or about the band is "just business" and when it's "family." Which usually means: "I can be as cold-blooded as I want whenever I want because it's a business - but if anybody calls me on it, I have the right to feel hurt and get angry because I think of you as my children - and this band is my baby."

Good luck if you're trying to work with one of those.

But in this case, it's pretty obvious (in the wake of part of the response he got back) that the OP is merely a hired musician rather than an actual member of her "band." So if that's the case, you do whatever is asked when it's asked for, and suck it up - or you go home.