How To Fire a Band Member

[Joe Nerve]

Thank you again for you indulgence and all of your good advice. Next time STOP ME!

I did my best.

Just been there, more than once, and on both sides of the situation.

I had a sweet gig once. Really simple pop punk. 7 song sets with nice people, $150 a gig, $50 for a single local rehearsal before the gigs. Drummer was absolutely horrible. Literally the worst drummer I ever played with, even in my teen years. I opened my mouth. Guess who stayed in the band.

BL had about 50 reasons he wanted that guy, over me. All of which were ridiculous IMO. Because I of course knew much better than him. They didn't throw me out of that band, but things got real weird and fell apart shortly after.

Whenever I'm walking into a new situation now, I treat like I used to treat my romantic involvements (married now, so I'm done with that ). Take it where it's at and accept and love it for what it is, not for it's potential. And if I'm not happy with something then I can always leave. I'm in cover band right now, where I could get a much better replacement for the singer in a heartbeat. It's not my band though. They've been at it a lot longer than me.

Last note... something I was thinking while skimming through some of the other responses. Regarding this being business, yeah, that's true... but I'm starting to realize it's all BS too. Not many bands these days are pulling in enough money for the entire band to support themselves on the music alone, so IMO it becomes a much less cutthroat thing. If BIG bucks were on the line the game changes a little, but usually we're only talking about a difference of possibly making 1 or 2 thousand more a year (if even that much), which in the big picture doesn't mean squat. There are more important things in a band, IMO, than playing with the best musicians. And the "best musicians" usually comes down to an opinion, too. Who's better, Keith Richards or Eddie Van Halen? OK, bad example . Anyhow, I'm free to play with others if I'm not happy with the people in a particular band I'm playing with. Only time I'll call the shots these days if it's MY band, and MY music. Outside of that, to me it ain't all that big a deal.

 

[MegaSwing]

Keeping your own counsel and being a dutiful sideman is always the best play. I have a drummer friend who plays really well but is always bouncing between gigs because he thinks his experience level entitles him to criticize, make demands, and openly express his opinions about everything he sees. His intentions are good, but he is a crushing bore, and usually at home waiting for the phone to ring. I won't use him or recommend him until I've called everybody else. Don't be that guy.

 

[Capt.Obvious]

I think you should keep him.You said he stays put as in ''in the pocket''?You said he's on time, dependable,nice guy,voted for you?I'd show him or tell him what we need,then go from there.I remember a time when guys like him were hard to replace.

I wish I had approached it more from this angle. Expressed a need for me and him to sectional at least, really refine the sound. Instead, I think it sounded like I wanted to replace him or go sans live drummer.

 

[Stealth Fighter]

I'm struggling with the idea of just how to fire the drummer in an originals band I play in.

I think it sounded like I wanted to replace him or go sans live drummer.

Well, which is it? You can't have it both ways.

 

[Capt.Obvious]

I did my best.

Just been there, more than once, and on both sides of the situation.

I had a sweet gig once. Really simple pop punk. 7 song sets with nice people, $150 a gig, $50 for a single local rehearsal before the gigs. Drummer was absolutely horrible. Literally the worst drummer I ever played with, even in my teen years. I opened my mouth. Guess who stayed in the band.

BL had about 50 reasons he wanted that guy, over me. All of which were ridiculous IMO. Because I of course knew much better than him. They didn't throw me out of that band, but things got real weird and fell apart shortly after.

Whenever I'm walking into a new situation now, I treat like I used to treat my romantic involvements (married now, so I'm done with that ). Take it where it's at and accept and love it for what it is, not for it's potential. And if I'm not happy with something then I can always leave. I'm in cover band right now, where I could get a much better replacement for the singer in a heartbeat. It's not my band though. They've been at it a lot longer than me.

Last note... something I was thinking while skimming through some of the other responses. Regarding this being business, yeah, that's true... but I'm starting to realize it's all BS too. Not many bands these days are pulling in enough money for the entire band to support themselves on the music alone, so IMO it becomes a much less cutthroat thing. If BIG bucks were on the line the game changes a little, but usually we're only talking about a difference of possibly making 1 or 2 thousand more a year (if even that much), which in the big picture doesn't mean squat. There are more important things in a band, IMO, than playing with the best musicians. And the "best musicians" usually comes down to an opinion, too. Who's better, Keith Richards or Eddie Van Halen? OK, bad example . Anyhow, I'm free to play with others if I'm not happy with the people in a particular band I'm playing with. Only time I'll call the shots these days if it's MY band, and MY music. Outside of that, to me it ain't all that big a deal.

This is all quite spot on. I make a little extra income by playing in lots of different projects but if I ever need to really eat, I have to get a real job like the cruise ship routine.

It's hard to let go and not care so much even when it's not MY band. I want every project I play on to sound as awesome as possible.

 

[btmpancake]

After thinking about some more when you said he has agood job with some travel,familyman?Maybe this drummer would Ideal for local cover material and dance tunes w/o too many changes IFyou decided too.As for me I'd find ''my friend'' something in common to keep our friendship.

 

[Capt.Obvious]

Well, which is it? You can't have it both ways.

After taking much of the good advice, I opted for a more diplomatic email and suggested we work with him, if he can't commit to the extra woodshedding, then we replace him and fire him, at the same time for added effect. I suggested we wait for him to set up his set at next rehearsal and THEN fire him, just sit there and watch him pack it back up.

Too much?

 

[MegaSwing]

^^^
I think you need more briefing.

 

[btmpancake]

I wish he would read these threads on TB

I think you should keep him.You said he stays put as in ''in the pocket''?You said he's on time, dependable,nice guy,voted for you?I'd show him or tell him what we need,then go from there.I remember a time when guys like him were hard to replace.

 

[the yeti]

UPDATE: Backfired! Blew up in my face sort of!

Studio sound


Typical live sound with loud drums.


Thank you again for you indulgence and all of your good advice. Next time STOP ME!

seems ok to me. i was a lot more bothered by the chick cupping the mic, that's more to blame for the sound than the "bonehead sound guy" in my book.

 

[Mystic Michael]

Also remember that if you treat it strictly like show business, not 'show friends', you also must prepare to not have a single friend in the 'show business' world. There are serious drawbacks to that approach. If that doesn't matter to you, then what the hell.

That's just not true. Treating business like business doesn't necessarily entail behaving like a selfish, insensitive jerk. It means behaving like a professional. It might mean, however, that your friends in the business will tend to be comprised of other professionals, i.e. people who have similar values of preparation, responsibility, and performance. Those kinds of friendships, unlike others, will be based upon mutual respect - not co-dependency.

MM

 

[MrBassman17]

Well, I can tell you how NOT to fire a band member! I don't want to hijack this thread, but I would like to share a very recent experience with you all. As a founding member of a blues band I was in (until last Friday..) I was involved with the marketing of the band, trying to get gigs, etc. The 'band leader' is more than a 'bit' of a power and control freak, but I knew that. So, he was away for a weekend that we had the opportunity to play a local Blues & BBQ show, in the last spot available. That same night, we had a gig scheduled in a local tavern we had played in before. The BL plays harp, so we were short there; but a friend who came to the BBQ said he would be coming to see us at the tavern. Being a friend, and also a pretty good harp played, I invited him to come up and blow on a few numbers with us. Which he did; the rest of the band had no problem with that. I posted a few video clips on our private band Facebook page. Well, the BL came down on me so hard - I was inconsiderate of how he would feel about that; I didn't ask him for his permission to have this cat play, etc. I was taken aback, to say the least! Then, in the two weeks following that outburst, I was getting a bad feeling about things. No response to IM's, posts on the Facebook page, weird vibe. SO I private messaged him. This is how not to fire a band member : He called me and said that the band had decided to replace me, as there was a conflict in personality. Personally, it would have been nice if we had got together over coffee or something an discussed this issue, as it was the first time I'm hearing about it. My conclusion, is that it was he who instigated this because he has to be in control. Sorry for the rant, but bottom line? Consider the feelings of the band member, and do it face to face.

 

[MegaSwing]

^^^
Not friends. Only associates.

However, I do not entirely disagree.

 

[jive1]

seems ok to me. i was a lot more bothered by the chick cupping the mic, that's more to blame for the sound than the "bonehead sound guy" in my book.

I agree. Cupping the mic contributes to feedback, thus limiting the volume you can get out of your monitors. It also affects the sound of the vocals as well. IMO, it wasn't bad. You can certainly hear the drums and they are forward, but they aren't drowning out the other instruments.

I think it's just a different type of energy and feel with and without the drummer. It's obvious what feel and energy the OP prefers, but it's not necessarily 'the best'.

 

[jwilson67]

UPDATE: Backfired! Blew up in my face sort of!

I'll try to be brief but I'd like to acknowledge every ones bit of advice, all very useful to me, some I wish I had paid better heed to. Doh!

So I sent off the email, being as diplomatic as possible and approaching it as clinically as possible, claimed it's my opinion as a musician only and that I like him a lot on a personal level. I asked her if it's show business or show friends?

Anyway, in her eyes I must have seemed like a real jackass. Her first message back to me on the phone after getting the email was simply, "Ouch! That's harsh!" Then launches into a few pages of, paraphrasing here, "YOUR replaceable too! Everyone is. I could record my whole sound with just Tyler (her husband and guitar man) in the basement with a keyboard and drum machine and Ableton. You know how hard it is to put together a band!?! We should be lucky to have Jim!

I'm a SOLO artist! That's why I had you sign that agreement when you joined the band Yadda yadda yadda I got you by the balls with both hands you jackhole bass player!"




She's right really, I have very little to complain about. It ended a bit more chill than that actually, but that's about how it felt like. Basically I didn't get much accomplished at all other than to create cognitive dissonance for her. She did finally agree however that he's too loud and too busy sometimes and we will work on it together.

I feel like I really put the 'ass' in bass today.



Here's a side by side comparison of our studio sound vs. our typical live sound. To be fair, the sound guy was a bit of a bonehead that night and there was a lot bad, not just overly loud drums. For one thing, the monitors were never loud enough and it's extremely apparent the first time Tyler tries to sing harmony and can't hear a damn thing and totally miffs the line. I Could barely here guitar on stage, mostly just snare. Bad sound guy aside, this is typical of his hard hitting, busy kick drum style. She's always getting on me for being "too jazzy" and too busy, but I tell her I'm just tying to lock in with the kick drum. She also says I play too quiet and I think I sometimes back off BECAUSE the drums are so loud, feel like the rhythm section is often burying the lead vocals most times.

Keep in mind, other people have given me the "drummers too loud" feedback before, so I don't feel like I'm alone in this. She sings like a Disney princess and he plays like he's backing Ozzy Osborne. Like most drummers, he sees a gig as an opportunity to play loud, he seems simply uninterested in sensitivity. He even said as much at one rehearsal.

Studio sound


Typical live sound with loud drums.


Thank you again for you indulgence and all of your good advice. Next time STOP ME!

Honestly, tell her to go #&* herself. You don't need that. If the drummer is sub-par then they ARE NOT lucky to have him! Once someone opens up floodgates like that when you were trying to be diplomatic then it's typical (without sounding misogynistic) typical chick band stuff. It's the exact reason why my band has fired two female singers in the past and now us four guys just do all the singing and we're much happier!

 

[jwilson67]

And tell her to go ahead and have her stupid husband do all the tracking because of course HE's better than any dumbass "side musician" they could hire.

 

[electracoyote]

If it's not your band, and you're not in a leadership position, the less said the better. Wait until you're asked before offering opinions, especially critiques. If the situation is unacceptable, start looking for another sand box to play in.

These are the main reasons I resign from bands so often; poor leadership and lack of objectivity.

Simply put, you can't sack a band member when you're not the band leader, and the mere suggestion is playing with fire.

 

[OOD]

Honestly, tell her to go #&* herself. You don't need that. If the drummer is sub-par then they ARE NOT lucky to have him! Once someone opens up floodgates like that when you were trying to be diplomatic then it's typical (without sounding misogynistic) typical chick band stuff. It's the exact reason why my band has fired two female singers in the past and now us four guys just do all the singing and we're much happier!

 

[Stealth Fighter]

I went back and listened to the recordings again, and I still stand behind my earlier post. As far as I can tell, he is no better/worst than anyone else in the band. I would agree that this particular band may be better off without a drummer.

You set him off on a beat or groove and that's what the beat will be to the end of the song, no dynamic changes, no variation or new textures.

I fail to see a problem here. We should all be so lucky.

 

[Joe Nerve]

Honestly, tell her to go #&* herself. You don't need that. If the drummer is sub-par then they ARE NOT lucky to have him! Once someone opens up floodgates like that when you were trying to be diplomatic then it's typical (without sounding misogynistic) typical chick band stuff. It's the exact reason why my band has fired two female singers in the past and now us four guys just do all the singing and we're much happier!

Wow . Would have loved to have seen the unedited version.