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How to get a neck that won't easily bow ?

#81
the problem with this discussion is that "maple" is a species - much like human. needing a neck to be reliable is like needing a person to be reliable. all pieces are individuals and need to be evaluated as such - which is why some foderas feature a one piece maple neck the same way some SX basses do...

that being said, thickness plays a huge role. thick necks are stronger, plain and simple - if you have both an exotic/hard wood, as well as thickness, it will be rock solid.

If stability was #1 for me i'd get a warmoth one piece purpleheart or wenge neck.

personally i've never noticed a measurable difference with or without carbon reinforcement. seems logical though.

don't overlook fingerboard wood also - a thick ebony board will do more for stability than you think!
 
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#82
skullbass said:
I live in Montreal, Canada, so many drastic climate change. Very rough on the bass neck. Under those circumstances, which criterias will give me a nice piece of lutherie:
1. Multi-ply or one-piece neck ?
2. Buy one with canadian hard maple ? (In this case, avoid made in Indonesia bass ?)
3. Priorize necks with reinforced truss rod with carbon ?
Click to expand...

It is unnatural for a piece of wood to be straight … you need a truss rod or rods, and sometimes graphite or steel rods …

Try a neck from these guys

Invalid Link Removed
 
#83
skullbass said:
I live in Montreal, Canada, so many drastic climate change. Very rough on the bass neck. Under those circumstances, which criterias will give me a nice piece of lutherie:
1. Multi-ply or one-piece neck ?
2. Buy one with canadian hard maple ? (In this case, avoid made in Indonesia bass ?)
3. Priorize necks with reinforced truss rod with carbon ?
Click to expand...
I just took my J bass to the tech yesterday for a seasonal adjustment. He noted that the neck had lots of relief and explained that the wood is always curing, causing tuning issues at times.

My guess is getting locally sourced wood may help reduce the effects of environmental changes. I'm sure I'm wrong, though, and there's much more to it than that.
 
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#85
skullbass said:
Well I created this thread because my luthier told me to "stay away from anything Made in Indonesia because of the wood they use. Nothing but hardwood from North America. G&L ok but not the Tribute, MIA or even MIM but not otherwise, etc."...I thought some nuance needed to be made....
Click to expand...
Most of the necks made in Indonesia, China and Korea are actually made from North American Maple.
 
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#86
skullbass said:
Even if it's imported Canadian maple, he says that the wood is often not dryed enough, that they are kept in diverse conditions that make them bow rapidly. At some point in time Ibanez outsourced to a Quebec plant (now Godin) their neck production because they keep the wood inside at a 45% controlled humidity. Apparently China Japan North America and Mexico have better practices.
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The largest contributing factor to problem necks from Asia is a result of how they are shipped. I have done a lot of work for a company that imported instruments made in a factory is Asia. There was an inordinate amount of warping and shrinkage on these instruments. It came down to two factors.

First, they were not properly drying the wood. Their kilns were faulty and they did not control the high humidity in the factory.

The next problem, and the most significant, was what happened in shipping. The instruments were sent to North America in containers aboard a ship. The instrument maker could not control where the container was positioned on the ship and it may well end up on the top of the stack taking all of the heat of the sun during its voyage. To see just how bad it was the company packed a hi-lo thermometer in one of the instrument cases before it was shipped. When opened in North America it was found that the temperature inside the case had reached 140F degrees, and that may well have been for an extended period of time.
 
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#87
Turnaround said:
The largest contributing factor to problem necks from Asia is a result of how they are shipped. I have done a lot of work for a company that imported instruments made in a factory is Asia. There was an inordinate amount of warping and shrinkage on these instruments. It came down to two factors.

First, they were not properly drying the wood. Their kilns were faulty and they did not control the high humidity in the factory.

The next problem, and the most significant, was what happened in shipping. The instruments were sent to North America in containers aboard a ship. The instrument maker could not control where the container was positioned on the ship and it may well end up on the top of the stack taking all of the heat of the sun during its voyage. To see just how bad it was the company packed a hi-lo thermometer in one of the instrument cases before it was shipped. When opened in North America it was found that the temperature inside the case had reached 140F degrees, and that may well have been for an extended period of time.
Click to expand...
Sir, you put in clear words what my luthier told me!
 
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#89
I have a few Silvertone 1444 basses (by Danelectro) from the early to mid '60s. The necks on these are reinforced by 2 metal bars and have no adjustable trussrod. In spite the very variable climate around here I've never had a problem with the necks on them.

My Warmoth necks also have 2 metal bars and an adjustable trussrod. I've also never had an issue with them once I set the trussrod during setup.
 
#90
Kubicki Fan said:
Metal sucks the heat right out of your fingers. I like my joints warm when I play.
Click to expand...
Hasn't ever bothered me, personally. Maybe because the Kramer neck has wooden inserts running down both sides of the aluminum frame (this example neck pic is not my 450B)? I dunno'.
Capture.PNG
 
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#91
cataract said:
The Obstructures bass that I have has a thru body clear anodized neck that’s partially hollowed out. The fretboard is aluminum as well but I went with a black anodized finish for aesthetics. The hex bolts holding the two separate pieces together are also the fret markers.
View attachment 3368245
View attachment 3368246
Click to expand...
That’s a cool looking bass !
 
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#92
I have owned a Modulus Jazz with a fully composite neck and really liked it a lot. I now own a Zon and really like it a lot. Some do not like the tone of a composite/ graphite neck but I love it and the durability of them. Very little adjustment needed. I played Stingray5s for ten years and I would need to adjust the action regularly. The problem Iam finding with inexpensive basses is the action is not uniform throughout the length of the instruments neck and gets considerably higher towards the twelfth fret and on towards the body of the bass. When you buy a Zon you are affording yourself one of the nicest most comfortable low action , even action necks available. The tone is modern and not for everyone. I have not one bad thing to say of Zon basses in fact absolutely love especially their playability. Low action. Makes playing easy and as effortless as it can be. I also love the tone. I absolutely agree to graphite reinforcement rods in wood necks and feel they really stabilize a wood necks action much better than old school truss rods. Modern technologies are improving bass building and the results of it and it can cost more. I have seen very nice action on Roscoe bass necks that have reinforcement rods and a purpleheart strip down the middle of the neck. Low action and playability are of utmost importance to me and I got used to graphite tone. I play heavier genre music so throw some distorted guitars on top of that and usually only bassists would ever realize a difference anyhow. I did not need low action until I was around fifty years old then I made more money and was able to buy my fingers and tendinitis scorn elbows a much better playing bass. Look at your action is it ok at the fifth fret but much higher at the tenth thru twenty second fret? It may not matter to some but it does to my hands and I just do not consider that to be a modern technology bass neck that is going to give the player added relief to the playability of their instrument. Money buys you a better bass neck build IMO. Not everyone will agree especially people not willing to pay more money for advanced technology in neck design. Sometimes tone is king and some do not like the tone change because composite doesn’t sound like wood. I want to play pain free so Iam sticking to Zon, Modulus, Gould, or more advanced reinforced designs like Roscoe and Sadowsky or any Co. willing to invest in designing and building a better playing neck. It cost me but Iam currently very happy with my Zon neck.
 
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#93
I want to add that well-made all-wood necks by master luthiers such as Pedulla, et al, don't seem to have such issues. They know the wood. I had two Pedullas with no rods, were not multi-lam but were quartersawn, and had no dead spots, sustained forever, and required little maintenance.
 
#95
I cannot confirm this but I was under the impression that while laminated necks can be more stable, poorly made ones (i.e. lumber not properly prepped) will change over time, you will be able to feel the glue joints as some wood will contract more than others...

This, again, might be an issue of "low end" basses wanting to look expensive...
 
#96
I'm also in Montreal and can definitely feel your pain! Humidifier and de-humidifier help, but there are limits and if you're playing elsewhere, it's almost guaranteed they won't be as humidity-conscious as you.

Aside from going fully graphite, Montreal has several guys doing kiln treated necks (some with and some without truss rods). By heating the necks and removing a lot of the ambient humidity, it goes a long way to simulating the effect of a graphite neck. Over time, humidity can build up, but from what I've heard, it's a pretty solid process. Look for a guy named Michel and his CoalTone Guitars Invalid Link Removed
 
#97
A little science for y'all from your local Talkbass Physicist:

Gilmourisgod said:
Another advantage on graphite necks, since the material is consistent, less prone to dead spots.
Click to expand...

Consistency is not what makes dead spots - it's the combination of stiffness, mass, and (not often discussed) the tuning you use (A neck with dead spots in E standard tuning will often work just fine tuned in D standard).

cataract said:
“Aluminum is 2.7 times the weight of maple.
Click to expand...
Aluminum has a density of 2.7 gm/ml, which means it's 2.7 times as dense as water. Maple is lighter than water (it floats), with a density of about .6 (it varies quite a bit)

Hounddog409 said:
Multi play laminates will ALWAYS be stronger than a single piece of wood.
Click to expand...

Multi ply laminates, if done right, can be much more stable than a single piece of wood (you can make the warping of each piece fight the warping of the other pieces), but there is no advantage in strength.

Input from the bassist and scientist in me:

I have had very good necks:

1) Aluminum necked Kramers that were as stiff and stable as you could ever find (though heavy). They do sometimes have minor dead spots - on the open A string. (yes, that's different)

2) Roasted maple (graphite reinforced) Warmoth necks. VERY stable, quite light at the same time. They can have minor dead spots, but they're higher up on the neck (8th or 9th fret on the G string), and generally not noticeable in most playing. Ya gotta go looking for them to notice them.
 
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#98
micguy said:
A little science for y'all from your local Talkbass Physicist:

2) Roasted maple (graphite reinforced) Warmoth necks. VERY stable, quite light at the same time. They can have minor dead spots, but they're higher up on the neck (8th or 9th fret on the G string), and generally not noticeable in most playing. Ya gotta go looking for them to notice them.
Click to expand...

Started roasting my own maple for this :D

Though as the Talkbass Physicist you're probably gonna tell me that roasting it in my home oven isn't real torrefaction, aren't you? ;)
 
#100
Forgive me if this has been said already. I haven't read all the posts.
From what I know, and correct me if I am wrong, is that neck wood that hasn't been properly dried will be most prone to warping and bending. Moisture is the factor more than temperature.

A simple option you should consider first: just get used to adjusting your truss rod. That is what it is for. This is a simple and free solution. It might help you bond with your instrument a bit more and help develop basic maintenance skills that will pay off in the long run.

Otherwise, if you want to get rid of the problem altogether, by a bass made of carbon fiber or aluminium. No wood, no problem. The Electrical Guitar company makes some wicked instruments but expensive, and you won't need to worry about adjustments ever again.

PS. I moved from Alberta to Norway. Basically 0 humidity to humidity all the time. No problems with my basses/guitars, and I just make the necessary adjustments when need be.
 

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