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How to setup a power conditioner to bass head?

#101
Nothing is what I use with several hundred thousand dollars worth of touring PA, so why would you think a bass amp needs protection?

Unless you want to spend your hard earned money on "feel good" protection technology, nothing it probably better than most of the (commonly used) products on the market. Most "power conditioners" that are sold as conditioners are really solutions looking for a problem IME.

IF you have a well defined power problem, then you want a solution that addresses your specific problem in a way that can be proven by those who understand rather than by those who make their livings marketing whatever they have as the perfect solution to whatever your problem is. It's easy to make you THINK you have a problem, then conveniently offer the solution to your (non)problem. ;)
 
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#103
I'm not an electrical engineer and whatnot but Ok, but I think my "problem" is the transistors and capacitors and components?? inside the amp could be worn out more quickly unless I attempt to use a voltage regulator right? So potentially I could elongate the life of the transistors inside by using this Voltage Regulator/Power Conditioner?

If not, then your darn right its going in the garbage right now. ha.. I"m not carrying around a power "conditioner" or Voltage Regulator for something if all my Amps/electronic Equipment do this naturally and effectively or that the Venue I'm in already has/does..

Shouldn't I get a Voltage Regulator to at least make sure the voltage stays at the 120v level and constant at that?

Thats my only thoughts..
 
#104
I'd suggest a voltage regulator ...... if the need for filling a rack space is overwhelming
I always make it a habit of checking the voltage of any venue that I play at with my Fluke multi-meter, there have been other suggestions of products to check voltage, in previous posts, but playing in a bar band, the real issue is under-voltage, due to assorted reasons

Here are some choices:
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - P-1800 AR
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - M-8x AR

If looking for used voltage regulators, here are a few:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
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#105
bassfacer22 said:
I'm not an electrical engineer and whatnot but Ok, but I think my "problem" is the transistors and capacitors and components?? inside the amp could be worn out more quickly unless I attempt to use a voltage regulator right? So potentially I could elongate the life of the transistors inside by using this Voltage Regulator/Power Conditioner?

If not, then your darn right its going in the garbage right now. ha.. I"m not carrying around a power "conditioner" or Voltage Regulator for something if all my Amps/electronic Equipment do this naturally and effectively or that the Venue I'm in already has/does..

Shouldn't I get a Voltage Regulator to at least make sure the voltage stays at the 120v level and constant at that?

Thats my only thoughts..
Click to expand...
Do you have a confirmed line (mains) voltage regulation problem? Does your line (mains) voltage increase beyond say 130 volts? Is your amp built to sub-standard operating voltage quality levels?

If not, then you will do nothing to increase your amp's life by using a regulator.

jastacey said:
I'd suggest a voltage regulator ...... if the need for filling a rack space is overwhelming
I always make it a habit of checking the voltage of any venue that I play at with my Fluke multi-meter, there have been other suggestions of products to check voltage, in previous posts, but playing in a bar band, the real issue is under-voltage, due to assorted reasons

Here are some choices:
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - P-1800 AR
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - M-8x AR

If looking for used voltage regulators, here are a few:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...

I do not recommend using a tap commutating voltage regulator for highly dynamic loads (such as a bass amp) due to the danger of hunting/oscillation and failure. IMO, such devices are last resort solutions.
 
#106
jastacey said:
I'd suggest a voltage regulator ...... if the need for filling a rack space is overwhelming
I always make it a habit of checking the voltage of any venue that I play at with my Fluke multi-meter, there have been other suggestions of products to check voltage, in previous posts, but playing in a bar band, the real issue is under-voltage, due to assorted reasons
Here are some choices:
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - P-1800 AR
FurmanSound.com - Pro A/V Product - M-8x AR
If looking for used voltage regulators, here are a few:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Click to expand...
Those can do more harm than good. This is what Bryston, one of the top power amp brands, has to say about power conditioning.

Bryston urges caution in choosing a power conditioner for your audio/video system. Large power amplifiers can draw
very substantial current from the wall plug, and many so-called power conditioners can in fact hinder the supply of current by inserting resistances in series with the line cord.However, there are now power conditioners that can reduce or eliminate RF and 'hash' from the AC supply and may actually improve current delivery to your system. This type of power conditioner (exemplified by 'TORUS' Power Conditioners) uses the energy storage in a large toroidal tranformer
to provide high instantaneous power and reduce the substantial AC output resistance of the wall socket and house wiring.
This resistance can be in the range of 0.5 to 1 Ohm and is typically reduced to only a few milliOhms by the Power
Conditioner. That in turn considerably reduces Voltage drop in the power line on high current surges and quite substantially increases the stability of the power line improving audio (and video) focus, precision and clarity.

If you want to use their recommendation of a Torus power conditioner go for it, but the price of admission is steep.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#107
Note that the Torus model's response time is limited to ~20 seconds (delayed), which eliminates the hunting/stability problems, but also does not deliver the operational performance to correct for the perceived problems related to voltage sag under dynamic loads.

IMO, this choice is probably the least of the evils because instability in the tap commutator can become a fatal event. Yes, as I said before, this is a much more difficult problem to solve in a "sales accessory" manner than addressing the real problems of source impedance and gross supply stability.
 
#109
Rick James said:
the energy storage in a large toroidal tranformer
Click to expand...

Energy storage?

You would think Bryston knows better.

They could have said something like "We build all the power conditioning you'd ever need into our amplifiers. It's one of the reasons we offer a twenty year warranty" "buy one of our Amps you won't need to spend $4500 on a power conditioner"

Do they ship their amps with power cords? ;)
 
#110
There is SOME energy stored in a toroids core, the problem is that it's not much and it's hard to recover. IMO, it's marketing half-truth kinda-sorta.

The real advantage of that particular regulating system is the galvanic isolation (not an auto-transformer) and it's a slow control loop that will be immune to hunting/instability. It will not correct from short duration droops and rises in supply voltage.
 
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#111
Well, I'll take the advice from AgedHorse. I do believe you are qualified person to allow your insights to us.. Thanks for that.

Now I'm gonna just have to call Walter and ask him about what he built in his handmade amps and if they can handle - sub-standard operating voltage level.. haha..

he doesn't seem to answer lately.. I sure hope he is ok.. anybody got a new number for him in California?

i have the 760-xxx-xx22 number...
 
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#112
bassfacer22 said:
I'm not an electrical engineer and whatnot but Ok, but I think my "problem" is the transistors and capacitors and components?? inside the amp could be worn out more quickly unless I attempt to use a voltage regulator right? So potentially I could elongate the life of the transistors inside by using this Voltage Regulator/Power Conditioner?

If not, then your darn right its going in the garbage right now. ha.. I"m not carrying around a power "conditioner" or Voltage Regulator for something if all my Amps/electronic Equipment do this naturally and effectively or that the Venue I'm in already has/does..

Shouldn't I get a Voltage Regulator to at least make sure the voltage stays at the 120v level and constant at that?

Thats my only thoughts..
Click to expand...
Most power strips are not voltage regulators, and the ones that are cost a bucket of money.
 
#114
agedhorse said:
After 30+ years in the touring side of the pro audio industry, and running a sound company using hundreds of AC powered devices and NEVER using a power "conditioner", I have yet to have a single failure attributed to a power spike event. This includes consoles maybe 50x as expensive as a typical bass amp.
Click to expand...

I too have gigged as a musician and live sound guy for 30+ years without using power "conditioning," with no ill effects to my gear or anyone else's.

Even the lab benches I've used since the late 70s have had no power "conditioning." Just test gear plugged into outlets, properly grounded and fused or breakered.
 
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#116
Yup, "shiver 'me timbers" at the risks audio professionals take in the face of those who market impending power system doom to masses ;)
 
#118
Being new to TB this is the only discussion on power conditioners I could find. Some locations we play have line noise, hum through our system. Is the technology improved in 2019 to filter the power. Or still a waste of money.
Thanks,
 
#119
Crash 181 said:
Being new to TB this is the only discussion on power conditioners I could find. Some locations we play have line noise, hum through our system. Is the technology improved in 2019 to filter the power. Or still a waste of money.
Thanks,
Click to expand...
Find out where the hum is getting in. To do this, turn gain knobs and faders up and down and find out which ones affect the noise level. It's doubtful thet the noise comes in on the power cables.
 
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