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How to Succeed as an Original Band

[SNIPPED]...the industry has morphed and now has two distinct age numbers. If you are doing pop, like Disney type, if you aren't all that by 19 you are done. After that, if you are doing current style or college rock, once you hit about 25 or 26 labels won't look at you unless you have a substantial following and a well respected catalog you already recorded and released.

If you are doing country, the rules go away, as they will often allow you to become "famous" into your 30's, but if you haven't WRITTEN a country song before that time that has made country radio airplay, your chances are much slimmer.

Hope that helps ya!
May I also suggest scrutinizing jazz/blues (if you enjoy that scene) as a couple of other genres that place a little less emphasis on all of the above, but mainly age. They won't make you a multi-millionaire in most cases, but you can make a good living from the time you're out of your 'pop prime' until you can no longer play at all!

I'm not saying that there's not a 'scene' to fit into with these types of bands - there most definitely is - but it's still much more about your chops there than the image.
 
May I also suggest scrutinizing jazz/blues (if you enjoy that scene) as a couple of other genres that place a little less emphasis on all of the above, but mainly age. They won't make you a multi-millionaire in most cases, but you can make a good living from the time you're out of your 'pop prime' until you can no longer play at all!

I'm not saying that there's not a 'scene' to fit into with these types of bands - there most definitely is - but it's still much more about your chops there than the image.

Thanks Saxn, I forgot about the jazz-blues thing. You hit it right.

I also want to add to my previous post that when American Idol started they had a specific age range to audition from 18-25. That wasn't an arbitrary age range. It was what the industry believed and still believes is the most marketable age range for new artists and talent.

Two years later they opened up the range a little more, 16-25! That was the year Diana DeGarmo managed to make the finals, at the age of 16.

Don't lose hope if your age gets higher, it just means, well, you have to work a billion times harder. But even Bruce Springsteen was the exception and didn't really make it early. He didn't get signed at all until he was 23, and his first two albums were originally lukewarm Dylan-esque critically aclaimed but not big sellers. He hit the big time with "Born to Run", released in 1975. Bruce was 26. He was popular but not huge yet and he really didn't hit superstar status until the release of "The River", which hit in late 1980 (Bruce was a mere 31 at the time.)
 
25 or 26?

Wow Im 24, and the others are 23. This kinda make me feel like are chances are slim and that were kinda old =(

We are all about 5'8 to 5'10. 165 lbs is the heaviest guy, thats me. Im slender. And our style is generally polos, tees, skinny blue jeans, etc. Basics.

I know we could put a good look together for shows, but the age thing worries me. Plus I always worried about making it and my fans all being younger than me too =/
 
The Wall Street Journal has an interesting article on making it in the music business written by Damian Kulash of OK Go:
The New Rock-Star Paradigm

Thanks Wavy for the link. Interesting read. But note the declining income, which is exactly what happens once things are readily free.

I'm not hopping on the bandwagon yet, but the more "free" stuff of value (aka your songs) the less anyone will agree to pay for it. The industry really should go back to the vinyl record.

I am donating my experience here. Mostly because I'm financially secure and have past my stadium opening days (hopefully not but I'm living in the real world).

How much would someone actually pay for my advice and services. Would you pay $100/hr? I'd be interested to know, especially give the fact that I've dumped some already for free.

I agree, you don't need a label. But you need something else otherwise. Carrie Underwood is huge because of Idol. She came into it with a position of strength. Most artists don't.

But again, great article.
 
You're welcome.

I've been enjoying reading this thread. I like what people have had to say.

Although I'm pretty much a hobbyist these days, I still like hearing about and learning from other people's experience.

Thanks.
 
It's getting near the holidays, so let's first all pour ourselves a glass of "Christmas cheer" before moving on to today's post.

Okay, I've got my apple brandy (George Washington's favorite).

Original bands and covers. Is it okay? What makes a cover band a cover band and an original band an original band?

I've found this is an important concept to grasp. And if you get it right, it will propel your band faster then if you don't get it.

Cover bands are bands that do predominantly songs already popular or released by other bands. Two to three sets a night at your local pub. The band is the entertainment, but not normally the show. Think of it as a good window dressing. While there are people who come out to see the band, cover bands usually are part of the overall experience at that place.

For example, I live on the Jersey Shore so I'll pick a bar known as Jenkinson's on the Point Pleasant boardwalk. It is really more then a bar, and it has always catered to the teen and college aged crowd. That's because the owners of Jenks also own just about every business on the boardwalk. So you attract a young crowd who wants to party and has expendable cash, and you make a mint. Jenks has theme nights, a billion TV's, radio station sponsored events and nights. Jenkinson's has always had the top cover bands in the state. The Nerds. The Benjamins. You won't find bigger bands. The Nerds were even declared by MTV the greatest cover band ever. Go to Jenks and the crowd is all young. But when the Nerds or Benjamins play the crowd will dance. But when the DJ comes on inbetween sets they will dance just as much. In this type of bar the Nerds are not the main attraction, its the fact there is a bar on the beach in a summer community and you can party. So the Nerds are just another piece of the puzzle.

Same with another bar by me, has a new name but used to be called "The Westside". It was the local hangout for all the locals. Sunday nites a cover band called "The Mangos" plays there and has for decades. They draw a little better then the bar does other nights but most people come to the Westside because its local, close to home, you can get booze at a reasonable price and you know everyone who will be there. The draw is the bar more then the band.

Cover bands also perform the songs as close to the original hit as humanly possible. The better you are at sounding like the original artist, the better their draw and recognition. Usually when a cover band tries and original the band hears crickets from the crowd. Cover bands are paid to basically reproduce the hits of the day and provide an additional reason for people to choose that bar that nite. A good cover band can pack 'em in, and a good cover band can add immensely to the over all feeling of the evening.

Now please, this is not a "cover bands suck post" so no comments.

Now, original bands do mostly original material. One set a night at best, and if you headline you might get more then 60 minutes. They play bars where the attraction IS the band. That's why club owners who do original music often try to get guarantees from the bands on ticket sales. They need you to draw to make a good buck. People specifically come to see the bands. They don't come to see the bar. There is no other attraction. So it is much more important from an original band perspective that you rock it out and hit every time you play.

Not that cover bands don't, but I've seen a ton of good cover bands that some nights don't put out because the bar is empty or not rockin. They know that they'll get another night back if they draw decently. Some have a regular night, which is also important to factor in.

Original bands do covers. Just only a couple in a set. And cover choice is much more important. The covers an original band chooses help define who they are. The important thing to know is that you should NOT do it like the original. You should make that cover your own. Period.

Kay Hanley and Linus of Hollywood have a band called Palmdale. They do an acoustic cover of the Outfield's "Say It Isn't So" that is true to the original but in many ways perfectly and purely Kay and Linus. U2 did "All Along the Watchtower". Much different then Dylan and Hendrix, but purely U2. Performing this song the way they did even helped, IMHO, define them more.

Original bands are the package, the main event and the covers you choose are important. Quirky original bands often find B sides and other non-radio popular songs to cover. A lot of bands cover songs from their influences. I have always covered "Secret Agent Man" and end my shows with it. Mine sounds nothing like Johnny Rivers, but rocks perfectly in my style. Original bands have to constantly grow their image and sound. They also have to make sure that what they play matches the sound of the night or the venue. Playing pop on a death metal bill never works. (Speaking from experience here.)

So original bands are THE entertainment of the night. They are the whole show. They do cover songs, but don't try and imitate the original artist or hit. They are about individuality and different. If you get that you will be better prepared to head toward success.

Cover bands get paid a lot more, especially in the beginning. That is okay and there is nothing wrong with that. Original bands should not be cover band haters. The musicians in cover bands are often better musically then original bands. I love a lot of cover bands and see them frequently. Original bands should realize that it is hard work to make their own songs, and harder work to make them hits and build a following, because it is the nature of the musical beast. And they need to recognize that they are the reason people come to that particular bar or club. They don't normally get more then two chances without a draw. Original bands have nothing to be compared to, with the exception of their cover song choices and how they make them rock. Do your cover songs in a way people like and get you, and you are on your way.
 
The musicians in cover bands are often better musically then original bands.

Dang! You were doing excellently with a very tender topic. No flame potential until there. That's when the apple brandy kicked in, isn't it? :) And I whole heartedly disagree, but won't argue it. If you change "often" to "sometimes" it would be a little more valid.

Joe from one of the above mentioned bands was the booking agent for the last cover band I played in. Thems guys are shrewd business people. Remind me a lot of stereotypical car salesmen.
 
instead of getting into this flame war about original vs. covers...it's been overdone to death...my only reaction to the original post is -- how do you define "success"? It doesn't have one meaning or an assumed one. If you "success" to you means becoming international superstars and ridiculously rich, the odds are so poor that you might as well forget it. But if you define success in a more reachable, logical way -- based on real information about what's going on in the music business now -- you're more likely to develop the type of plans and strategies that will put you in a position to potentially reach your "success" goal.
 
instead of getting into this flame war about original vs. covers...it's been overdone to death...my only reaction to the original post is -- how do you define "success"? It doesn't have one meaning or an assumed one. If you "success" to you means becoming international superstars and ridiculously rich, the odds are so poor that you might as well forget it. But if you define success in a more reachable, logical way -- based on real information about what's going on in the music business now -- you're more likely to develop the type of plans and strategies that will put you in a position to potentially reach your "success" goal.

While success has varying degrees and definitions by person, I think somewhere early on I put it in two categories. One was superstardom, the other was making a decent living with original music without needing a day gig.

I delved into the cover band thing only because someone asked me the other day why I considered myself an original band when I played three covers in an hour set. I figured it was a good time to remind everyone that its okay for original bands to play a few covers and how to do it.

I worry about the music biz now. I have read a series of articles about the money getting less and less and in this economy bars and even things like plays are cutting out live music.

Thanks for contributing!
 
Today's quick songwriting lesson, having to do with melody.

Here is a "nugget" if you will. One of the best ways to understand and learn how to craft lyrical melodies is to listen to old instrumental rock. My favorite is Hank Marvin of the Shadows. Not only did all the Beatles and Stones learn guitar by "stealing" Hank Marvin lics, but he manages to come up with some very lyrical leads.

Followed then by Dick Dale, finally the Ventures.

I'm listening to my Shadows vinyl right now. Amazing how by listening to him I learn more and more about how to craft perfect melodies. And not a word sung.

So that's my tip. Go get yourself some Hank Marvin. Or listen to him on YouTube. Now go write some melodies!
 
Thanks Wavy for the link. Interesting read. But note the declining income, which is exactly what happens once things are readily free.

I'm not hopping on the bandwagon yet, but the more "free" stuff of value (aka your songs) the less anyone will agree to pay for it. The industry really should go back to the vinyl record.

I am donating my experience here. Mostly because I'm financially secure and have past my stadium opening days (hopefully not but I'm living in the real world).

How much would someone actually pay for my advice and services. Would you pay $100/hr? I'd be interested to know, especially give the fact that I've dumped some already for free.

I agree, you don't need a label. But you need something else otherwise. Carrie Underwood is huge because of Idol. She came into it with a position of strength. Most artists don't.

But again, great article.
In regards to your quote about vinyl records, I am young and vinyl records are actually coming back (i collect them) so there is money to be made. When you buy the record you get a free MP3 download, therefore there is no reason not to buy, plus the sound quality is unmatched.
 
In regards to your quote about vinyl records, I am young and vinyl records are actually coming back (i collect them) so there is money to be made. When you buy the record you get a free MP3 download, therefore there is no reason not to buy, plus the sound quality is unmatched.

I'm really surprised that the vinyl quality is unmatched. Like I said before, most people and studios don't use analog recording methods anymore. So the vinyl just can't have the "pop" the old ones did.

I'll have to call some industry peeps and see.

I like the vinyl with mp3 download thing. But I still love my vinyl more...
 
Interesting stuff in this thread. I've been playing original music here in Australia for over 15 years and also spent a year playing professionally as a singer songwriter in Vancouver. I've had a couple of label deals and am a fine example of a guy who has played support to some bigger acts but normally come up short when the big chances have arrived.

My honest advice is as follows -

1) Talent is not the critical factor. Musicians with special gifts are everywhere. Learn what your strengths are and create music with a sense of freedom. If you keep a concept of your own identity, it will show in your music. You can always do "you" better than versions of the bands you like.

2) The bands that break through develop unsolicited support. It's not about how many of your friends regularly attend shows. They are your friends. Theres booze there. Pay attention to the people you have never met who saw you one week and came back the next. What they like about your music tells you alot.

3) If you think you will make a fortune out of cd/record sales in modern music, you are dreaming. Live gigs and merch are the best cashflow generators. How hard are you willing to work? 100 gigs will earn you a decent platform each year if you can book them.

4) Be realistic. Learn to step back from your band and your passion and think about continually getting better. Don't let compliments go to your head.

5) Support gigs are about performing at your best and stealing some crowd interest. The major acts care little about your sound quality or stage space. Some will blatantly screw you over. Toughen up and expect to perform on a table if you have to and still play well.

6) Keep a long term view on what you want to achieve and prepare yourself for the possibility that you won't be "signed and rich" in two years. Think about being a musician for the rest of your life and not about "giving it two years". If it's your life's work to create great music, it's much easier to survive the bad gigs.

7) Don't play politics in your local original scene. The dominant local bands are often more political than they are professional. You need to be tenacious and focus on your own thing. Don't aspire to be better than some local stage hogs or egoists. Look at your influences worldwide and aim to perform at that level.

8) Pick your band mates carefully and give it time. You don't need obsessed musicians on every instrument to get chemistry right. You need people willing to work and people willing to share the effort. Make sure a band "leader" is someone who makes decisions you respect.

I hope thats relevant and useful. I'm not a success story and I've made plenty of mistakes. That said I'm a better musician now and I wish I had this understanding of the original scene15 years ago.
 
Interesting stuff in this thread. I've been playing original music here in Australia for over 15 years and also spent a year playing professionally as a singer songwriter in Vancouver. I've had a couple of label deals and am a fine example of a guy who has played support to some bigger acts but normally come up short when the big chances have arrived.

My honest advice is as follows -

1) Talent is not the critical factor. Musicians with special gifts are everywhere. Learn what your strengths are and create music with a sense of freedom. If you keep a concept of your own identity, it will show in your music. You can always do "you" better than versions of the bands you like.

2) The bands that break through develop unsolicited support. It's not about how many of your friends regularly attend shows. They are your friends. Theres booze there. Pay attention to the people you have never met who saw you one week and came back the next. What they like about your music tells you alot.

3) If you think you will make a fortune out of cd/record sales in modern music, you are dreaming. Live gigs and merch are the best cashflow generators. How hard are you willing to work? 100 gigs will earn you a decent platform each year if you can book them.

4) Be realistic. Learn to step back from your band and your passion and think about continually getting better. Don't let compliments go to your head.

5) Support gigs are about performing at your best and stealing some crowd interest. The major acts care little about your sound quality or stage space. Some will blatantly screw you over. Toughen up and expect to perform on a table if you have to and still play well.

6) Keep a long term view on what you want to achieve and prepare yourself for the possibility that you won't be "signed and rich" in two years. Think about being a musician for the rest of your life and not about "giving it two years". If it's your life's work to create great music, it's much easier to survive the bad gigs.

7) Don't play politics in your local original scene. The dominant local bands are often more political than they are professional. You need to be tenacious and focus on your own thing. Don't aspire to be better than some local stage hogs or egoists. Look at your influences worldwide and aim to perform at that level.

8) Pick your band mates carefully and give it time. You don't need obsessed musicians on every instrument to get chemistry right. You need people willing to work and people willing to share the effort. Make sure a band "leader" is someone who makes decisions you respect.

I hope thats relevant and useful. I'm not a success story and I've made plenty of mistakes. That said I'm a better musician now and I wish I had this understanding of the original scene15 years ago.

Your post is exactly what this thread is all about. And you are a success more then most, as you've been able to keep some original music going for a decade and a half.

All of your points are extremely true and valid. All the upstarts and youngin's here need to read this post a billion times.

Oh, and about now its Christmas in Australia, so, HAPPY AND MERRY CHRISTMAS!
:hyper::bassist::hyper::D
 
Tendollarcat, that is some encouraging advice. my band has been at it for about 3 years (including two drummers). What you have described is what we constantly swear by and discuss. If you can "make it" (be successful enough as a musician to accquire a decent fanbase, keep playing for 15 years, and a comfortable living) going that route and not compromising creativity, then that gives us some hope that we have a real chance. Thank you for that inspiring post.
 
Well I like this topic. Personally I don't really know what the whole success things is all about anymore. I just recently quit my job making top, top five figures, and could have kept doing it without a break for the next thirty years, but hey you can't take it with you so what's the difference. I moved back to chicago to rekindle my roots to music with the full support of my wife. Yeah I don't expect to make anything compared to what I used to make. Honestly I really don't care if I make a dime as long as I love what I'm doing. I've played bass for 20 something years, and I'm just gettin' started. I can still go all day playing my bass without getting bored............Cheers. Happy Hanukkah.............brian LOVE WHAT YOU DO!
 
Welcome bThumper! That's what this is all about. Different perspectives on success, and how to use our collective experience to achieve your personal original music dreams.

My lovely Suzanne is going to watch "The Promise" video with me today. I love watching my local guys creating one of the greatest albums of all time.