How to Succeed as an Original Band

[TRichardsbass]

Tonight's nugget is brought to you from my 15 year old step-daughter.

BE VERY CAREFUL WHO YOU INVITE TO YOUR SHOWS!

My step daughter and a friend went to a band showcase for Bamboozle on Sunday. They went to support their friends. During the set someone came up to them who they did not know and asked about the band and if they knew them. My steps friend immediately responded that she knew the band and that they did this show on a whim. They didn't expect anything from it.

Wanna guess who was doing the asking?

Local reporter. He also asked them a few more questions, which I am sure my step and her friend did not answer in a good way for their friends.

Now, to their defense they are only 15 and girls who have crushes on the boyz, who are 17 and 18. But apparently the only people who showed to see them were the girls.

So the lesson for all the up and coming bands is be careful who you invite to shows. If there is anyone who you think might not be your best advocate, don't invite them to showcases or shows where you are likely to have someone there who might be able to do something for your career. That way you are at least giving yourselves a better shot at the big time.. Nothing worse then your drunk cousin telling a record exec that he thinks you suck.

Oh, and I am writing this on my new Mac while loading in my Cubase.

 

[txbasschik]

Sorry to say it but in original bands, vocals are key. If you lack a singer with a distinctive voice, people aren't going to buy your product. This is one differentiation between covers and originals. A covers singer can get away with it because an audience will typically sing along. In original music, how will an audience develop a desire to sing along with something that isn't compelling?

Unless you are clearly seeking an instrumental niche, you need a voice in the band. And that voice doesn't need to be 4 octaves and wailing. It just needs to be the pathway to - "Hey I know that band. Thats band X". I've heard people use all manner of excuses for the main songwriter singing badly. The whole - "It worked for Bob Dylan" and "My lyrics will hook them" and "But this riff kills".

Put yourself in the shoes of an average audience member. He/She doesn't know you are using a Ritter through an Aguilar rig. They don't know the guitarist has tuned down to C. They don't know the drummer is using a triplet pattern with his right hand. The emotional connection to other humans is via the voice first up. It's like heading to a first date with no front teeth and expecting someone to find you attractive

Sooooo TRUE!!!

So...we had "the vocals conversation" at rehearsal. Singer actually listened and will work with us. We reminded him that Robin Trower did all the guit work, but James Dewar sang. Got him to agree to put the songs in a more comfortable key for his voice, and to not try to sing high anymore. Drummer said, "You have a cute chick bassist with killer pipes. Let her do the high parts! You can't...she can!" Drummer also says (to me, privately), that he'll help me write about anything I want, so that I can do more singing, which he feels can only help. And, finally, when Singer/Guitarist said he was ready to go out and book gigs right now, Drummer and I said no. Not until we are righteous in every way. Better to wait and be truly ready, than to go now and give a bad impression. Singer/Guit had made a disparaging comment about another local band, earlier, and I reminded him of it. This band came out before they should have, made bad impressions everywhere, and although they have improved, everyone still thinks they suck...Singer/Guit included. Based on a bad impression from five years ago.

"Do you want people to say that about US? 'Cause they will, if we go gig now, and we'll never live it down! Be patient, and wait until we are tight!"

So...not a total solution, but we've embarked on an effort, at least.

Cherie

 

[TRichardsbass]

Sooooo TRUE!!!

So...we had "the vocals conversation" at rehearsal. Singer actually listened and will work with us. We reminded him that Robin Trower did all the guit work, but James Dewar sang. Got him to agree to put the songs in a more comfortable key for his voice, and to not try to sing high anymore. Drummer said, "You have a cute chick bassist with killer pipes. Let her do the high parts! You can't...she can!" Drummer also says (to me, privately), that he'll help me write about anything I want, so that I can do more singing, which he feels can only help. And, finally, when Singer/Guitarist said he was ready to go out and book gigs right now, Drummer and I said no. Not until we are righteous in every way. Better to wait and be truly ready, than to go now and give a bad impression. Singer/Guit had made a disparaging comment about another local band, earlier, and I reminded him of it. This band came out before they should have, made bad impressions everywhere, and although they have improved, everyone still thinks they suck...Singer/Guit included. Based on a bad impression from five years ago.

"Do you want people to say that about US? 'Cause they will, if we go gig now, and we'll never live it down! Be patient, and wait until we are tight!"

So...not a total solution, but we've embarked on an effort, at least.

Cherie

Great Cherie! Thanks for adding to the conversation. Now, I have a request. Pix please! After all, you apparently are a cute, chick bassist. There aren't too many of those, we all know.

 

[OPBASSMAN1994]

I think I can offer some advice. I'm pretty young as a musician, but I think I can offer this: TREAT EVERY SHOW AS IF YOU'RE A PRO. There's a baseball quote by Honus Wagner that says; "the trick to being a good ball player is to trick yourself into thinking you are one." When I say to treat every show like you're a professional musician, I mean to treat it as if it is your "big break". make it AS GOOD AS POSSIBLE. Work on your set, work hard, and if a song doesn't work, cut it. fix problems from the last gig. Make it as big, bad, and awesome as you can, and view everyone of them as an important opportunity. That'll make for a much better show in my (albeit limited) experience.

 

[Jason P Bass]

I think I can offer some advice. I'm pretty young as a musician, but I think I can offer this: TREAT EVERY SHOW AS IF YOU'RE A PRO. ... When I say to treat every show like you're a professional musician, I mean to treat it as if it is your "big break".

This is good advice, although I phrase as "Play every show as if it's your last."

I make every show a contest, Me VS. The World, to see who has the most energy, excitement, the highest rock-n-roll scream, the coolest pose, (the coolest clothes, the coolest equipment, the most rockin attitude, etc.) because I'm on a mission to be the center of attention. My number 1 competitor is usually the lead guitarist, and damnit if I'm going to let him get more attention than me!

The lead singer sometimes gets upstaged by the bass player, who doesn't even have a mic, and this is proof that he needs to step up his game (which is our current band drama topic).

But from the audience's perspective, they see a stage full of maniacs doing scissors kicks, headbanging, playing off each other, screaming, and generally rocking out like you only see on TV.

And that's how you get people to like you on Facebook. If someone can help me turn this into riche$, PM me.

 

[SLIV]

I read 140 posts (no joke) and I was only on page 7-- I don't look at these forums everyday.

Anyway, don't know if this is mentioned but if someone knew what made a band successful, we'd all do it and be done with the whole enterprise. Nobody knows exactly how it all works. No formula.

I can tell you this-- every band ends up badly. Every single last one. Just like a love affair. I've heard bands described as complex, multi-person marriages, and the metaphor works except for the fact is 99.9% of them end in metaphoric divorce.

Sounds negative but its not.

Just enjoy them for what they are: really intense, emotional connections with people-- people you play with, people you play for. Just like sex, some people make a living doing it and the rest of us just do it. So enjoy.

 

[JohnMCA72]

I read 140 posts (no joke) and I was only on page 7-- I don't look at these forums everyday.

Anyway, don't know if this is mentioned but if someone knew what made a band successful, we'd all do it and be done with the whole enterprise. Nobody knows exactly how it all works. No formula.

I can tell you this-- every band ends up badly. Every single last one. Just like a love affair. I've heard bands described as complex, multi-person marriages, and the metaphor works except for the fact is 99.9% of them end in metaphoric divorce.

Sounds negative but its not.

Just enjoy them for what they are: really intense, emotional connections with people-- people you play with, people you play for. Just like sex, some people make a living doing it and the rest of us just do it. So enjoy.

Plenty of bands don't end badly, just like plenty of marriages don't.

It's one thing to just be into it for fun, as a hobby. It's a whole 'nother thing to be in it for a living. The mistake most people make is treating it like a social gathering instead of a business. Plenty of businesses fail, in every industry, & music is no different in that regard. What is different, perhaps, is that people don't form plumbing companies just to hang with their friends, party, & be cool. If they did, plumbers would probably have the same failure rate as musicians.

 

[iD Entity]

Just want to pipe in... this thread has been one of the most useful on this forum. For all those contributing, thank you!

There may be no secret formula, but there are definitely lessons to improve opportunity.

 

[bassinplace]

If you want to be in an original band, my advice is don't plan on the big time. Do your art, bring some music to the people, enjoy it, spead some positivity in your little corner of the world in the here and now. In essence, do it for the love of music.

Music as a business pursuit misses the point, imo. Society can't prosper in a world full of musicians. It just can't, that's the reality. A lucky (very) few hit the "big time" and the rest of us play because it makes us happy. When it comes to music and art that's really all there is, the way I see it.

 

[TRichardsbass]

If you want to be in an original band, my advice is don't plan on the big time. Do your art, bring some music to the people, enjoy it, spead some positivity in your little corner of the world in the here and now. In essence, do it for the love of music.

Music as a business pursuit misses the point, imo. Society can't prosper in a world full of musicians. It just can't, that's the reality. A lucky (very) few hit the "big time" and the rest of us play because it makes us happy. When it comes to music and art that's really all there is, the way I see it.

Thanks for your contribution, however I will say that music as a business pursuit is what it really is all about, if you are desiring the ultimate success. If you want to do music full time, you have to treat it in a business sense. The truth is that no band ever started knowing they would make it big, most were a bunch of guys who wanted to play. The Beatles started that way. But even the Beatles, after they got a decent manager, figured they had to start treating it like a business. Pete Best was dispatched quickly, and although Stu Sutcliffe was John's good friend he was also sent packing. Those were business decisions, not buddy decisions.

It's been my experience that you need to do both for the best opportunity to succeed, You must create and play music like you are in it purely for the love of it, but you must also pay close attention to the business aspects of it.

A band is not a marriage, in any way. If you look at the history of most of the "successful" bands, most of the members were in several failed bands until they got together and hit it big. After the band of your buds falls apart you start to understand its not just about the music. That's when the business end takes over.

So I'd say play and write for the pure love of it. Do everything else around music as if its your business/only job.

 

[bassinplace]

Thanks for your contribution, however I will say that music as a business pursuit is what it really is all about, if you are desiring the ultimate success. If you want to do music full time, you have to treat it in a business sense. The truth is that no band ever started knowing they would make it big, most were a bunch of guys who wanted to play. The Beatles started that way. But even the Beatles, after they got a decent manager, figured they had to start treating it like a business. Pete Best was dispatched quickly, and although Stu Sutcliffe was John's good friend he was also sent packing. Those were business decisions, not buddy decisions.

It's been my experience that you need to do both for the best opportunity to succeed, You must create and play music like you are in it purely for the love of it, but you must also pay close attention to the business aspects of it.

A band is not a marriage, in any way. If you look at the history of most of the "successful" bands, most of the members were in several failed bands until they got together and hit it big. After the band of your buds falls apart you start to understand its not just about the music. That's when the business end takes over.

So I'd say play and write for the pure love of it. Do everything else around music as if its your business/only job.

Yep, projects will come and go, but the love for what we do makes us continue doing it. I see your point, but I don't think it's about fame and fortune, at least for me it's not. I mean how many musicians are gonna really make it big? There's only so much room at the top and it's a really small space.

If you get paid for playing your creation and sharing it with the world, all the better (and I think technology is making those opportunities more attainable all the time) and if mega success does fall into your lap, then I don't think there are many who would say no to it, if any. But is the business side really the main drive? The motor that keeps it all going? Maybe for some, for me I would have to say it isn't though. If it was, I would have been disappointed a long time ago.

 

[stratovani]

Any chance of getting a sticky on this thread? I'd hate to see it get buried, and it's looking like it's getting close to the edge! It's way too good a thread to lose.

 

[HeadyVan Halen]

You forgot one thing:
If your original you need a gimmick. Yes a gimmick.

-Playing with your feet.
-Getting so smashed, you stage dive from the bar, and still keep your thumpin' solo in perfect time.
-Doing copius amounts of narcotics.
-White guys that can rap.
-Black guys that play country.
-Everybody playing through 1 amp.
-Everybody playing insanely loud.
-Set up outside and play when it's 27 degrees outside.
-Sell your stuff door to door, at gas stations, at Salvation Army, Bus Stops, Soup Kitchens etc..
-Do a 'Benefit Concert' for a make believe person.
-Wear some strange stuff on stage...diapers has already been done.
-Be very cliche and aloof when doing interviews or talking with anybody who has a college degree. This will make you seem more like an 'artist'.
-If all else fails, break sh!t.

We tried most of the above.

 

[steveksux]

Slip Brown Eyed Girl and Mustang Sally into your setlist....

Randy

 

[matt descending]

Enact some kind of publicized destruction or rage or theatrical stupidity. Make a big fn deal out of some random occurrence that has built in media. Then do it again

 

[TRichardsbass]

Helloooooo! I am done recovering from the Super Bowl (had to drink too much just to make it fun.) Time for a new topic here, from a question I was asked last nite by a 15 year old and his mother:

"Should we wait until we have everything well rehearsed, have our website done, have a demo up and have Reverbnation or YouTube hits before we try playing anything live or doing live shows?"

That is an interesting question. Original acts, especially solo artists, have the interesting conundrum where they need to get seen and get recognition, but have to be very careful not to do something too early that would derail their potential career in an almost unrecoverable way.

My answer to them was this; you must make sure that your live show is rehearsed and polished, and that if you make an appearance you will be good. You also have to be selective in the venue and have a purpose for each show. You don't have to wait until you've sunk a billion into video and demo, but you do have to make sure you have something available for them to see or go to if they like you. So the answer is sort of yes, and sort of no.

The first couple of shows any band does can make or break them, and local audiences usually are more critical then regional audiences, as they may know you or know of you and also may already have certain acts they will judge you against. But bands have the distinct ability, shoud they do something to screw up, of rebooting, under a different name and with a different set of players, and get a second, third, fourth chance at getting the start right. Not so much for someone who wants to be a solo act or the next Justin Bieber. You only get maybe one and a half shots at the start.

With all the online ability to post music and video, people can ride a wave of ether popularity. I know of one such act that has been number one in NJ on Reverbnation, has been as high as 10 on Disney radio, and has several YouTube releases that have a decent number of hits. This particular young act has never played live. And to date, after an investment into the six figures, not one real penny is flowing nor is there a label knocking on their door to sign them and make them a star. This particular act is very talented, but probably will not get much more attention until they can attract a live crowd. Which will not happen until they play out.

So, for all you up and comers out there, the lesson is that in musical life you will always run into the "chicken and egg" conundrum, and even more so as you are starting. So my suggestion is this:

1. Rehearse and know your music until you can do it faithfully and without major error as if you were walking past a club and the owner ran into the street and asked you to come in and fill in for the band that didn't show.

2. Have a MySpace or website with two or three of your songs on it for people to hear should they meet you and want to hear your sound.

3. Have a plan of early shows with a purpose. If your very first gig is just to introduce everyone in the band to actually playing out live and also record it to critique, then book a show where you can do it and probably only a handful of people will see it. For this type of show, don't go inviting the world or announce your arrival.

Maybe your second show will be one where you have worked out the bugs and now want to start inviting a larger crowd to. This show will be used to see how well you market yourselves and how many friends you really have. This could also be the show where you start to build an email list.

Third show, this is your planned make-or-break show. Use it to use your honed sales and marketing strategy, your more polished stage act and also maybe invite local radio and college radio DJs. Maybe this is the show you actually pay the crowd to show up.

4. Polish your demo and get it on Reverb Nation. Since you've done some live shows people will now be able to go find you there and start introducing people to your stuff.

5. Work hard and pray.

That's today's tidbit. Hope you find it useful.

 

[J.KEEFE_bass]

Fair enough. I like the change.

I'm 23. I've been playing bass since the age of 9, 14 years ago. I've been playing live/gigging since I was 15. I've been in a ton of bands ranging from Electronic, Rock, Post-Hardcore, Pop etc. I've been apart of or recorded on over a dozen records.

A band I was in, in which 3 of the 4 members in my current band are in now signed to Emerald Moon Records.

My current band, The Dialogue, is prepping to shop our 3rd record. It definitely took 3 records, touring, showcasing, and 2 1/2 years of writing/recording etc. to be 100% behind the product we are about to shop.

I've gone through a million different set ups and am extremely happy to say although I have gas I know exactly what I want, what I like and what I need.

Current Set Up:
1971 Fender Precision Bass
1978 Ampeg SVT
2000 Ampeg SVT 810
Korg Pitchblack
Maxon OD 808
Maxon D&S II
EHX Memory Toy
Pedal Power 2+
Zaolla Silverline Instrument Cables
Alessandro High End Speaker Cables

Other gear not used live:
2000 Ampeg SVT AV (for sale)
Maxon AD999
2004 Ampeg B100R

Shopping for another P:
1959-1966 - Rosewood - C Neck

You can check out 3 tracks from my band's upcoming record here:
Link Removed
I'd love to hear feedback.

Live video sample:

 

[delta7fred]

So there are some monster groups/players posting on this thread. I'm subscribed. I pour about 3 to 4 hours daily into booking, researching events, and phone calls for my group. This is a awesome thread, thanks for starting it Mr. Richards!

so with that said here is my resume. I'm 27 years old I've been playing bass since i was 9. If I had to give a highlight that evenone would recognize... I wrote, tracked, and recorded on a album with Chew from North Mississippi All-stars. The album is Seven Acres Self titled release check it out here: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Gear is gear but currently I'm crusin on a 77 jazz bass. I love SWR amps. 750 on a Goliath III

The group i refered to earlier is a eclectic rock band name Psychobilly Cadillac. Link Removed

We're based in Richmond Va and we have been working our booties off contacting all the local promoters trying to get in on all the local festivals and concert series. We are a young band so our main focus is on building a fanbase. To date we've been received well. Now its your turn talk-bass. have it... tell me what you think. Any advice?

Out of Mind

Soul Flow

So I have just been on youtube, your band is Psychobilly Cadillac, but there is also a Psycho Billy Cadillac as well, which I really hope is not you (they certainly don't look like your band) as they are IMO pretty goddamn awful. Just my opinion of course YMMV etc. (Don't want to start any flaming and risk getting such a good thread locked. )

As an out and out covers player of 40+ years and in a different country I don't have any useful advice, but I do like the sound of your band.

 

[MikeyThrottler]

I've read through most of this thread, and there's some great advice. I'll try to contribute without writing a novel since there's dudes on here with a lot more experience than me.

I've been writing and performing original music for about 20 years, have done my fair share of recording and touring. Nowadays I'm still at it, but I've come to appreciate the comfort of having my own place to live and being able to afford to eat, so I'm a working stiff who plays in and out of town on the weekends. YMMV...

Success is indeed hard to define. I've had a few acquaintances who have "made it" (ie, signed to large indie labels, had videos on MTV, etc.) and they all had to work regular jobs between tours to make ends meet. For 99% of us, music just doesn't pay that well.

I guess the biggest point I can emphasize for bands trying to succeed and grow their fan base it to GET OUT OF TOWN! Seriously, stop playing locally so much.

It's okay for your first batch of shows, but after that what do you really stand to gain by playing in the same city over and over again?

Most cities I've been to have fairly small scenes related to each genre, and it's really easy to over-saturate that scene. I mean, why should someone come see your band tonight when you're playing two shows across town the following weekend? You can promote the heck out of your local shows to your Facebook fans, most of whom live in your city, but after awhile you'll find that you're simply playing to the same folks show after show. Fine if you're just in it for a good time, but not so smart if you want to grow your fan base. No more than one local show a month is my rule.

So, my suggestion is to procure some sort of vehicle the whole band and their gear can fit into, get online, and start trying to set up gigs with bands you like in neighboring cities. The internet has made this criminally easy compared to how it used to be, and it's fairly easy to find bands to play with when you're willing to "trade" gigs with them and set them up with a show in your hometown.

Make enough of these contacts and you can be playing in front of a new crowd almost every weekend, gaining new contacts and new fans at each show. Then be sure to play again in each of these new markets every few months. That way you've been away long enough for the crowd to miss you, but not so long that they will have forgotten about you.

Basically, my point is if you are a really good band, don't waste your talent playing to the same people at every show just waiting for someone to notice you. Get out of town and make it happen for yourselves.

 

[J.KEEFE_bass]

So I have just been on youtube, your band is Psychobilly Cadillac, but there is also a Psycho Billy Cadillac as well, which I really hope is not you (they certainly don't look like your band) as they are IMO pretty goddamn awful. Just my opinion of course YMMV etc. (Don't want to start any flaming and risk getting such a good thread locked. )

As an out and out covers player of 40+ years and in a different country I don't have any useful advice, but I do like the sound of your band.

Delat7fred- haha that is not us. We are Psychobilly Cadillac not to be confused with Psycho Billy Cadillac.

Well thanks for listening to the band! I bet you are full of advice.