How would you react to this?

[Tom Howland]

No upright......No gig. There is no problem.
I've gotten heat from a few people I play with, to get another upright. I have not had one in a few years.
If the demand is there, get one and practice.

 

[BawanaRik]

The best you can is forget about this.

The next best is to practice your stand up

 

[jmattbassplaya]

I'm an active local musician/electric bass player and I have a group of musicians I call in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd order for gigs. I have a drummer who is first call. I bring him a lot of gigs, judging by the size of his 1099 at the end of the year.

Anyway, he called me a while ago asking if I would mind if for a couple gigs at a restaurant not far from him, if he could use our piano player (2nd call guy) and a string bass player for the gig. His reason for this was the owner "wants string bass" and I'm an electric player. I said fine, but indicated that if I was going to call him first for all the gigs I have, I'm expecting to be part of the gigs if the instrumentation is the same (piano, bass, drums) that he books.

Personally, it irks me when I bring musicians a lot of work, find the musicians, arrange the rehearsals, get everyone music, and then they go off on their own, when there are no apparent interpersonal skill or other problems. I also think the owners' string bass requirement was hokus.

I later see all over the Internet that he has named the trio, and gotten a professional video done. He is listed as the contact for this group, and they are doing music festivals around town.

How would you proceed with this case?

Like others, I understand why this might be a blow to you. It does seem a bit crappy that the drummer would poach another player from your line for his own gig when you have given him so many. Why wouldn't he use you?

That said, the drummer doesn't necessarily owe you the gig just because you throw him a lot of work. If he thinks another player would be a better fit then that's up to him and his band. To add on the extra layer that this gig requires a string player, and you're not one, makes it seem all the more reasonable that he would pass on your services.

Now, if you want to throw him less work, or no work, because you feel slighted then that's up to you, but I'd really take a minute to think why you feel that way. I don't think he necessarily did anything wrong.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Whatever will work best for you $$$-wise. You are a professional bandleader. He's just looking for gigs. Maybe he set you up, maybe something just clicked.

If it were me, unless I needed him to help make money, I would just scratch him from the list of people to call. Quietly. Just like the Godfather, this is the business you chose.

 

[BawanaRik]

Oh yeah, you got a jazz trio on your rooster

 

[Groove Doctor]

Sometimes it's only in hindsight that we realise we were stooged. This guy gave you 1 gig in return for 18 you gave him. The writing was on the wall but sometimes we just don't see it until it's too late.....

Should have cut down on gigs to him a year ago.

 

[csaw49]

I think as a professional courtesy that the drummer should be keeping you in mind, as 1st right of refusal for his gigs. Since it doesn't appear that he's honoring any kind of gentleman's agreement .. (or aware that there should one ?) then you either a) find another drummer, b) work up a contract of some type that equals out in commiserate pay and/or # of gigs, or just work it out over a few beers and set the rules straight on what's fair. Good luck!

 

[Bassic Playing]

I think that you have a legitimate concern. A drummer forming a band with a group of musicians you introduced and work with to play the exact same style and compete with you would be galling. If the drummer is being shady (I wouldn't jump to conclusions though, he may just be having fun, and doesn't think about the 'business side' as much as you, who is obviously very good at it and informed about such things) then he's being pretty rude, but not much you can do except be more successful than him.

But as I said, not much you can do. I think being known for strong-arming musicians into being loyal to you would be a bad rep to have. Also, I know you said you reject everyone's opinion of your personality, but you do seem a little blunt and controlling. It's probably easy to come off that way on the internet, but in any case, I think that clear, amicable communication is the key. Just tell the drummer how you feel, without trying to force him to do anything. If he sees it your way and ditches the band, good, if not, you haven't burnt any bridges, and being polite never hurts.

 

[cronker]

Here are some phrases common in our language:

Don't burn your bridges
What goes around comes around
Time is a healer
You can't get what you want, till you know what you want

Coincidence.

I'm not sure of the exact story now, but I remember reading about a quite famous member of a band who was dumped in the band's early days for someone else who was a better player. Band got famous, but dumped the replacement guy because he was trouble. Rehired the first guy who is now a millionaire.

 

[Nev375]

Here is just a simple question in the name of objectivity.

Is the drummer absolved from any responsibility here? Or is he just the recipient of an unwarranted character assassination.

I doubt the drummer is looking at this in the same way as the OP. Different people have different points of view and think about things accordingly.

From the OPs point of view its a case of an unscrupulous person. Im sure if the drummer read this it would be character assassination. We wont get to hear both sides so judging and placing blame is irrelevant.

What IS relevant is what is the best course of action for the OP. If it were me, I'd wish him and his new band well and not take any of this personally at all. Moving him down on the call list is fine as he obviously has plenty of work anyway.

I would definitely NOT call him out on his actions or talk to anyone else about him. That kind of negativety will not help the OP and could possibly hurt his own reputation in the community.

Always treat other people a bit nicer than they deserve and simply drop any hurt feelings that come your way. No one else cares about them, why should you?

 

[Slpbass81]

That drummer is your first call and you are not his. There is nothing wrong with that, maybe that guy brings him even more work. Business is business.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Another factor. Every gig is an opportunity to get another gig. So having upright on every gig, even when BG would satisfy, opens up more opportunities for upright gigs.

 

[PauFerro]

I appreciate the comments. The last few have been more focused on the problem, with the exception of the controlling and harsh personality thing. If you could keep the personality stuff out of the conversation, I will keep listening and reading. You can't get an accurate picture of a person by what they write alone. You have to know of the many times I have given the guys more pay than I promised, not taken a share when the gig does not pay well, asked them for input into the songs we do, have thrown their entire bands gigs when I have been unavailable (subbing my role out so they could play the gig), and paid them many complements, and given them lavish thanks for all the things they do. I have also paid them for rehearsals during dry spells long in the past, and put myself to a lot of work in buying equipment they wanted when they thought it would be cool to experiment with backing tracks, alternate keyboard sounds etcetera. You don't see these things here nor do you get the entire picture.

And I think you are confusing controlling with expecting people to follow through on agreements. Could we not go there? I only find it irritating to have to explain what and who I am in real life, and frankly, I'm tired of doing that in these threads. It happens to me and must about anyone who posts about conflict in their groups. And conflict is inherent in most things worth pursuing.

Just trust me that I am not controlling, and that fair and effective leadership has always been my mantra. Stick to solving the problem. Of all the criticism I have received in real life, I have never been accused of being harsh or too controlling. People who know me would find those labels funny. But I am capable of being firm when I have to be.

My mantra, framed on the wall, is "Leadership is the process of turning vision into reality through the wise use of power" and I try to live my life by that standard in all leadership contexts.

In a way, I think we've covered it all, unless anyone has anything to say that hasn't been said about how to proceed.
Just keep the personality stuff out of it. You consistently keep getting that part wrong.

 

[Nev375]

I appreciate the comments. The last few have been more focused on the problem, with the exception of the controlling and harsh personality thing. If you could keep the personality stuff out of the conversation, I will keep listening and reading. You can't get an accurate picture of a person by what they write alone. You have to know of the many times I have given the guys more pay than I promised, not taken a share when the gig does not pay well, asked them for input into the songs we do, have thrown their entire bands gigs when I have been unavailable (subbing my role out so they could play the gig), and paid them many complements, and given them lavish thanks for all the things they do. I have also paid them for rehearsals during dry spells long in the past, and put myself to a lot of work in buying equipment they wanted when they thought it would be cool to experiment with backing tracks, alternate keyboard sounds etcetera. You don't see these things here nor do you get the entire picture.

And I think you are confusing controlling with expecting people to follow through on agreements. Could we not go there? I only find it irritating to have to explain what and who I am in real life, and frankly, I'm tired of doing that in these threads. It happens to me and must about anyone who posts about conflict in their groups. And conflict is inherent in most things worth pursuing.

Just trust me that I am not controlling, and that fair and effective leadership has always been my mantra. Stick to solving the problem. Of all the criticism I have received in real life, I have never been accused of being harsh or too controlling. People who know me would find those labels funny. But I am capable of being firm when I have to be.

My mantra, framed on the wall, is "Leadership is the process of turning vision into reality through the wise use of power" and I try to live my life by that standard in all leadership contexts.

In a way, I think we've covered it all, unless anyone has anything to say that hasn't been said about how to proceed.
Just keep the personality stuff out of it. You consistently keep getting that part wrong.

There you go telling others what to do again... just sayin'

 

[BobKos]

Here's the way I think about these kinds of things. You got him 18 gigs in two years. How much is that money wise? $18,000? Probably not. And that's not much money. So how loyal should he be? I think he has to look out for his own #1 to make money. Or keep / get a day job. So he is forging his own groove the way you have. The stolen player thing isn't cool, but you have to respect his desire to be in charge of his own destiny. It's not for everyone as you know.

You're concerned about cutting him from gigs. He may not have time for you - you don't know.

I agree with the others that you should open a line of communication should he call on you for any reason. If he doesn't, that should also be taken as a communication to you.

 

[PauFerro]

There you go telling others what to do again... just sayin'

Beats head against wall. To make that comment after I politely asked you not to, citing irritating with it makes me scratch my head a bit Nev. Almost pressed the ignore button but didn't because you made a couple insightful comments early. I'll put it down to not thinking on your part.

 

[PauFerro]

Here's the way I think about these kinds of things. You got him 18 gigs in two years. How much is that money wise? $18,000? Probably not. And that's not much money. So how loyal should he be? I think he has to look out for his own #1 to make money. Or keep / get a day job. So he is forging his own groove the way you have. The stolen player thing isn't cool, but you have to respect his desire to be in charge of his own destiny. It's not for everyone as you know.

You're concerned about cutting him from gigs. He may not have time for you - you don't know.

I agree with the others that you should open a line of communication should he call on you for any reason. If he doesn't, that should also be taken as a communication to you.

No, that was the number of gigs he had in the last year or so. In two years it would be about double that. I also pay him better than his other gigs. Out of time? Never -- the only time he has gig scheduling conflicts is when he is out of town with his wife, and that happens normally at Christmas time. Any time I call him, he's available. When he joined me, it was because he wasn't working enough with a rock and country band he was in. I do know what's going on his head. He likes the other situation a bit better, and so lulled himself to thinking he could go forward without jeopardizing his situation with me by telling a half truth about the purpose of the band, and its longevity. I have now found out that he is promoting that band and not ours as he agreed, and will therefore be adjusting our relationship accordingly.

 

[Nev375]

Beats head against wall. To make that comment after I politely asked you not to, citing irritating with it makes me scratch my head a bit Nev.

I knew you were a headbanging metalhead type guy at heart.

Seriously though... I think you are taking all this a bit too seriously...

 

[brianrost]

I used to work with a bandleader who would no longer give out phone numbers of any of the guys he hired when someone called wanting to get in touch with any of them. He had a few guys poached and didn't want to have it happen again.

So to the OP: you should have just said no in the first place.

 

[blastbass]

My mantra is the music is more important.
I'm very grateful that I'm a full time working musician yet don't have to deal with this kind of band/gig politics and stress..