Not standing upright, that is.
You seemed to have made up your mind though, and you are certainly entitled to your decision, as is he.
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How would you react to this?
- Thread starter PauFerro
- Start date
Not standing upright, that is.
You seemed to have made up your mind though, and you are certainly entitled to your decision, as is he.
That's right. All we know is what you write here. And what you've written here (even the above quote) doesn't exactly scream "warm personality."
The downside is that he obviously has the motivation to go out and make this new group a success. Without my gigs feeding him, my clients become fair game. If he is still getting SOME work, then he's less likely to lowball my clients because its more work for him, he loses my calls for gigs. As someone once said, keep your friends close, and your "enemies" closer...not that he's an enemy, but that is how the quote goes.
I'm consistently described as a "nice guy". But over the years I've had to grow a backbone on certain issues, and this is one of them.
Dude, I totally understand your frustration as the drummer used your contacts tonace you out and start something to compete directly with you. It's a breach of common decency, something ALOT of musicians are sorely lacking in. I think you have every right and reason to be upset. If it was me I would do 1 of 2 things:
1. Cut him and the other 2 completely out of your loop. Your clients are still yours not only for the music but probably for the professionalism so you'll get you gigs and he will compete for them like anyone else would...that's competition.
2. Option B says keep him and stay so busy he has no time for the other project, and you get A list player and gut local competition.
Good luck. Hope it works out one way or the other.
1. Cut him and the other 2 completely out of your loop. Your clients are still yours not only for the music but probably for the professionalism so you'll get you gigs and he will compete for them like anyone else would...that's competition.
2. Option B says keep him and stay so busy he has no time for the other project, and you get A list player and gut local competition.
Good luck. Hope it works out one way or the other.
sorry I didn't read the whole thread before quoting your earlier post. Your plan to keep him on the existing gigs while not giving him any new regular ones is as good as it will get.
It's pretty clear, although it may seem harsh he obviously prefers playing with the other person and apparently they've hit it off because they are getting gigs and making videos. He played with you because he was wiling to accept a paying job but when he got to choose he picked someone else.
How would you react if the drummer in question were sent a link to this thread?
Explain to me how this question is relevant to the situation? Him getting this thread would be no different than sitting down with him and explaining my concern with the situation except I might choose words more carefully.
From one band leader who uses a depth chart to another:
I get the impression that he no longer wants to be on your depth chart, or doesn't consider it the priority, even if it's first call, and he wants his own thing. I wouldn't be too indignant about it, you guys had a lot of good experiences and you may need to work together again someday. Even if it's disappointing, I'd keep that information to myself, wish him the best with his project, and move on.
Yeah, it might be a little weird competing with him for gigs, but such is the life of a band leader. It goes with the territory, and not the kind of thing you come unglued over.
In addition, I'd still ask if it's okay to keep him on your depth chart for gigs you book on dates he's not working and even keep him first call if he's that good. When he's not working with his project, he'll still be available for yours.
Take care not to burn bridges; on the contrary, be supportive.
You're kinda talking more like a gangster than a BL in places. Because half of what you're saying is a threat. Basically, it sounds like you're tap dancing around but still saying: Either do things the way I think they should be done - and don't change the status quo - or face my wrath. I'm a powerful guy locally. And I'll screw you over every chance I get, and make an example of you, if you don't abide by my rules and play my game. Which is to say: I'm the one driving this bus. So don't you be getting any ideas.
Did I miss anything?
Sure, it sucks when somebody does an end run and starts what you think is poaching on "your" turf.
But if this guy is a free agent rather than a full time employee of yours, he's perfectly within his legal rights to do whatever he feels is best for him. Because that's the way it works when you're a hired gun and not an employee. Reasonable expectations of loyalty extend only to the hours of the contracted gig.
If what he's done bugs you that much, stop using him. But do yourself a favor and don't start with any "you don't know who you're dealing with" crap. It'll only backfire.
Voice your objections and reach some sort of understanding (minus any threats) or tie it off and the two of you move on. I've run my own businesses for roughly 40 years now, and I've run into much the same you've recently experienced. And I've even felt the same way you do a few times. But I worked out an arrangement in one case. And I just stopped working with the other guy another time. And it all worked out fine in the end. Both times.
Did I miss anything?
Sure, it sucks when somebody does an end run and starts what you think is poaching on "your" turf.
But if this guy is a free agent rather than a full time employee of yours, he's perfectly within his legal rights to do whatever he feels is best for him. Because that's the way it works when you're a hired gun and not an employee. Reasonable expectations of loyalty extend only to the hours of the contracted gig.
If what he's done bugs you that much, stop using him. But do yourself a favor and don't start with any "you don't know who you're dealing with" crap. It'll only backfire.
Voice your objections and reach some sort of understanding (minus any threats) or tie it off and the two of you move on. I've run my own businesses for roughly 40 years now, and I've run into much the same you've recently experienced. And I've even felt the same way you do a few times. But I worked out an arrangement in one case. And I just stopped working with the other guy another time. And it all worked out fine in the end. Both times.
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I think it would be foolish to continue sending this guy gigs. Just treat him like any other business treats their competitors, be ruthless and don't apologize for it. No need to slam him or bad mouth his band,just focus on getting new players from the pool of available talent. Once he sees his gigs are falling by the wayside, and you aren't calling him,he'll probably call you-then you can explain that you have a new team and his services are no longer required.
Yeah, tons. A better interpretation si
Read about what he agreed to. There is no legal agreement, but what about basic politics keeping agreements, and showing reciprocity? He has no leg to stand on.
And that fact that quite a few people here seem to think freezing him out of future gigs is a good response goes to show just how much HE has mismanaged the situation. Is that what you would want if you were getting a lot of gigs from a hardworkign band leader? Have him hear about a new startup using musicians the band leader found, booked gigs for, polished repertoire with, after being lied to about it being a "fun" thing for a one-off gig?
I wouldn't go that route unless I wanted to cut off my nose in spite of my face.
I'd just start working a new drummer into shape to be your #1 call and cut this guy loose. Too much baggage with this other guy and the whole situation. You'll likely never feel quite comfortable about working with him. It's work/business, but music should still be fun.
So, you're point was in making me think whether I should talk to him rather than posting it here?
No, I haven't tried that. The reason many people go to discussion forums is to air concerns, listen to mature perspectives (while ignoring the ones that lack business savvy, investment in the situation, maturity, etcetera) before acting so as not to screw up the situation.
THEN, out of that often comes a different or altered perspective if you can make it through all the comments that show lack of understanding of the situation, show that they didn't read the post, or don't have the same hours logged in grooming people and bringing them on.
So no, I haven't bounced it off him at all. I'm favoring just reducing the gigs I send him.
No, I haven't tried that. The reason many people go to discussion forums is to air concerns, listen to mature perspectives (while ignoring the ones that lack business savvy, investment in the situation, maturity, etcetera) before acting so as not to screw up the situation.
THEN, out of that often comes a different or altered perspective if you can make it through all the comments that show lack of understanding of the situation, show that they didn't read the post, or don't have the same hours logged in grooming people and bringing them on.
So no, I haven't bounced it off him at all. I'm favoring just reducing the gigs I send him.
I already have two guys ready to replace him as we speak. That is true for almost all positions in the groups except guitar, which I seem to have trouble finding suitable players.
