I CAN'T MAKE UP MY MIND ABOUT MEN!!!!!!!

[hbarcat]

Reading over this whole thread so far I see that nearly everyone has given you bad advice.

You're being told to embrace the dating process typical of a generic, average mediocre person and you don't fit that description. You're a woman in your early thirties and you've made enough of a commitment to education that you've earned a college degree. You enjoy playing music and so you play bass in a metal band and have acquired some serious gear to further that process as well as having had to put in the time to learn to play a difficult, though unglamorous, instrument. Other details of your personality that you've written reveal that you have interests that are non-typical (such as martial arts and scientology) and that you also pursue those interests more aggressively than most people today do. You wrote:

"I thought that idea behind dating different people was to eventually either say "yes, you ARE the one" or "no, thanks for playing." And since I'm already divorced, I am NOT looking to get married just for the sake of getting married. I'm looking for the RIGHT PERSON, which I think is different. Some girls just want to be married to someone. I want to be married to the right guy."

The average person doesn't think like this but it's typical for YOU to think this way. In my opinion, it's bad advice to tell you not to do this. You should be yourself and go after what you want on your own terms, and if it results in some people fearing a commitment to and running away from someone who is serious about developing herself physically, mentally, artistically, socially or otherwise then that's their loss and you've found another person who fits the category of "no, thanks for playing". Understand that most people whom you date are eventually going to become uncomfortable in close contact with a person who knows what she wants and is aggressively pursuing it. You should simply let these "candidates" disqualify themselves when they say "Sorry, but I don't feel like a commitment right now." until eventually you find youself with one who wants to stay and is willing to commit on your terms (as well as his own) and for the right reasons. Be faithful to you own ideals, first. It will be worth it.

 

[soulgeezer]

http://www.koreancupid.com/

 

[RWP]

Reading over this whole thread so far I see that nearly everyone has given you bad advice.

You're being told to embrace the dating process typical of a generic, average mediocre person and you don't fit that description. You're a woman in your early thirties and you've made enough of a commitment to education that you've earned a college degree. You enjoy playing music and so you play bass in a metal band and have acquired some serious gear to further that process as well as having had to put in the time to learn to play a difficult, though unglamorous, instrument. Other details of your personality that you've written reveal that you have interests that are non-typical (such as martial arts and scientology) and that you also pursue those interests more aggressively than most people today do. You wrote:

"I thought that idea behind dating different people was to eventually either say "yes, you ARE the one" or "no, thanks for playing." And since I'm already divorced, I am NOT looking to get married just for the sake of getting married. I'm looking for the RIGHT PERSON, which I think is different. Some girls just want to be married to someone. I want to be married to the right guy."

The average person doesn't think like this but it's typical for YOU to think this way. In my opinion, it's bad advice to tell you not to do this. You should be yourself and go after what you want on your own terms, and if it results in some people fearing a commitment to and running away from someone who is serious about developing herself physically, mentally, artistically, socially or otherwise then that's their loss and you've found another person who fits the category of "no, thanks for playing". Understand that most people whom you date are eventually going to become uncomfortable in close contact with a person who knows what she wants and is aggressively pursuing it. You should simply let these "candidates" disqualify themselves when they say "Sorry, but I don't feel like a commitment right now." until eventually you find youself with one who wants to stay and is willing to commit on your terms (as well as his own) and for the right reasons. Be faithful to you own ideals, first. It will be worth it.

Wow, very well written!

 

[disenchant]

Reading over this whole thread so far I see that nearly everyone has given you bad advice.

You're being told to embrace the dating process typical of a generic, average mediocre person and you don't fit that description. You're a woman in your early thirties and you've made enough of a commitment to education that you've earned a college degree. You enjoy playing music and so you play bass in a metal band and have acquired some serious gear to further that process as well as having had to put in the time to learn to play a difficult, though unglamorous, instrument. Other details of your personality that you've written reveal that you have interests that are non-typical (such as martial arts and scientology) and that you also pursue those interests more aggressively than most people today do. You wrote:

"I thought that idea behind dating different people was to eventually either say "yes, you ARE the one" or "no, thanks for playing." And since I'm already divorced, I am NOT looking to get married just for the sake of getting married. I'm looking for the RIGHT PERSON, which I think is different. Some girls just want to be married to someone. I want to be married to the right guy."

The average person doesn't think like this but it's typical for YOU to think this way. In my opinion, it's bad advice to tell you not to do this. You should be yourself and go after what you want on your own terms, and if it results in some people fearing a commitment to and running away from someone who is serious about developing herself physically, mentally, artistically, socially or otherwise then that's their loss and you've found another person who fits the category of "no, thanks for playing". Understand that most people whom you date are eventually going to become uncomfortable in close contact with a person who knows what she wants and is aggressively pursuing it. You should simply let these "candidates" disqualify themselves when they say "Sorry, but I don't feel like a commitment right now." until eventually you find youself with one who wants to stay and is willing to commit on your terms (as well as his own) and for the right reasons. Be faithful to you own ideals, first. It will be worth it.

Wow, thanks! I guess being yourself is ALWAYS the answer, and letting everyone who doesn't like it (so long as being yourself does not involve being an a$$hat to others) kiss your a--.

I've always been the little independent girl, competitive sometimes, and always goal-driven. I guess after so much bad luck in the past 3 years (divorce, then a string of losers) it's easy to look and say "hey, there must be something wrong with me. Maybe I should stop being me."

I think there IS good advice in there--if taken the way you just stated. My mom has always said "stop being so independent!" And so in the process of NOT being me I've been less independent. What some guys have said is be MORE independent...don't act needy! Tru dat.

Perhaps the kind of guy that fits with a girl like me is more rare. You're right, I should not be afraid to say "thanks for playing" Maybe since I've met so many of the wrong ones it's easy to think that the "supply" of men is small or that what I'm looking for does not exist, or that "all men" are a certain way. But as I am different, so are all men.

The general advice was...do your thing. Good idea. Thanks! Someone out there will like a Korean metal bassist chick!

 

[God of Rapture]

Korean metal bassist chick!

Just reading that gave me a slow roaster.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

THAT line of thinking is THE biggest reason for failed relationships. If you take physical attraction and sex out of the equation, what you are left with is what good relationships are ALL about.

Before I met my wife, I was waiting for a haircut, and was sitting there and on the coffe table in front of me were a bunch of books and magazines. One book, a book of quotes, was lying open. On that page facing me was the quote (by some unknown man)...

"Marry someone you love to talk with, because in the long run, that is all that matters."

That was a "light-bulb" moment. Every relationship I ever had was based on physical attraction and great sex. But the part that makes for a strong relationship was forced and unnatural because we could never have long meaningful conversations.

Don't get me wrong, my wife and I are physically attracted to one another, and the sex is great...but we have a great relationship because it isn't based on either of those things.

If you think that great relationships are based on physical attraction and sex...well, good luck to you then. Even initially, those things are not that important to people who actually want, and are looking for, a strong relationship.

Don't believe me? Think about your current relationship (whatever stage it's at) and think how you would still feel about it if say, your wife/girlfriend was in a horrible car accident that left her scarred terribly and/or paralyzed where she could no longer have sex. Would your relationship be just as strong? I know mine would. I adore my wife. The fact that she is attractive and/or the sex is great is NOT why I married, or even dated, her. I love the person she is.

Dogue. I'm not saying that relationships are based soley on sex and physical attraction. I'm saying that MOST (not all) relationships start out that way. The ones that last are the ones where people discover each other's minds somewhere amidst the fun. The two are not mutually exclusive. One leads to the other. AND you're right. If you marry for just the sex your relationship is doomed. I was not implying that. All I was saying, is that at Sunni's point in this game, and probably with the guys she's meeting they're still in the stage that I mentioned. You can't go looking for love right off. AND you're not going to go looking for it with people you're not physically attracted to.

As for removing the sex out of a relationship. Been through many things in my relationships. More than you can imagine. Sex is not everything. You're right. BUT sex is important too. Very important. Not just for the act itself, but for the tenderness it creates as a byproduct between you and your partner.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Important? How important? Would your relationship be just as good if sex never happened again?

No. But it's important because it did happen. Otherwise, it wouldn't have existed in the first place.

 

[morf]

Important? How important? Would your relationship be just as good if sex never happened again?

No.

 

[RWP]

No sex no relationship; only tension and expectations.

 

[Scott in Dallas]

Ugh. Dating. Hope I never have to do that again.

If you stop acting like you, the person who would be genuinely interested in you won't notice because you are too busy being someone else.

You'd look really hot as a nun, though.

Like a friend of mine who's dating says: Men are like parking places...

 

[jgbass]

I've always been the little independent girl, competitive sometimes, and always goal-driven. I guess after so much bad luck in the past 3 years (divorce, then a string of losers) it's easy to look and say "hey, there must be something wrong with me. Maybe I should stop being me."

I think there IS good advice in there--if taken the way you just stated. My mom has always said "stop being so independent!" And so in the process of NOT being me I've been less independent. What some guys have said is be MORE independent...don't act needy! Tru dat.

Perhaps the kind of guy that fits with a girl like me is more rare. You're right, I should not be afraid to say "thanks for playing" Maybe since I've met so many of the wrong ones it's easy to think that the "supply" of men is small or that what I'm looking for does not exist, or that "all men" are a certain way. But as I am different, so are all men.

The general advice was...do your thing. Good idea. Thanks! Someone out there will like a Korean metal bassist chick!

Disenchant,

I do not know if any women have replied here, but I am also one of the few females her on TB. I am older than you, but I have been playing music since I was 13 and, as I have gotten older, music has become even more important. It just cannot be any other way. The nice thing though is that as one gets older, one seems to care less what others think. Being a musician is so much of who I am that it would be death to myself to not play music and go for my musical goals. I'm also highly into self-development. For me its not marital arms, but it is Astanga yoga philisophy and practice, and I have more than one college degress. Yes, I went through all the pressure to do things that were, for lack of a better term, more socially acceptable, but I always came back to music, and now, this is where I am going to stay because this is who I am. It is depressing, to say the least, to not be who one is. I do not think I have typical female interests.

My mother always said I was "too independent" and probably wished I spent more time playing with dolls vs. playing in bands, but things do eventually come full circle and she seems to admire me now for what I have accomplished.

This lament of where do I find the right guy is an ongoing thing for us females, but there are already "right guys" out there. Yes, it may be the rare one, but I think there is the right person for everyone. But if you are finding the wrong guys, have a string of losers in your past, maybe you have to seperate this from anything having to do with music and get clear on what a healthy relationship is, do some homework, read some books or something, get yourself healthy and over your ex's, and not settle for what you do not want. What has been the problem with these guys? Why are they losers? Is there a pattern there? If you are engaged in truly being yourself, I think a lot of this desperation to find a guy just might disappear, and you will end up meeting someone out of the strengths of our interests and goals and that will be sure to be a healthier relationship. Getting married for the sake of getting married just does not work.

I find there are those who think its just wonderful what I do, and, in some ways, I have become role models for them to get going on doing what they really want to do in life, and there are those who are lukewarm, oh that's nice, blah, blah, blah. So, I stay away from those people and spend time around people who really nourish me.

Being yourself is not optional.

Sorry if I missed some major points. This is a long thread and I don't have time to read it all, but I think its great that you posted on this topic.

 

[Bass Boy]

Bass Boy didn't want to get married yet.

I don't even remember you asking...

 

[disenchant]

I don't even remember you asking...

LMAO!

 

[Sundogue]

Dogue. I'm not saying that relationships are based soley on sex and physical attraction. I'm saying that MOST (not all) relationships start out that way. The ones that last are the ones where people discover each other's minds somewhere amidst the fun. The two are not mutually exclusive. One leads to the other. AND you're right. If you marry for just the sex your relationship is doomed. I was not implying that. All I was saying, is that at Sunni's point in this game, and probably with the guys she's meeting they're still in the stage that I mentioned. You can't go looking for love right off. AND you're not going to go looking for it with people you're not physically attracted to.

As for removing the sex out of a relationship. Been through many things in my relationships. More than you can imagine. Sex is not everything. You're right. BUT sex is important too. Very important. Not just for the act itself, but for the tenderness it creates as a byproduct between you and your partner.

I wasn't really disagreeing completely with you, but rather trying to make a point. I mostly agree with you here...especially that most guys the age Sunni was seeing are still at that limited stage of the game, as it were.

One thing I should mention though, is that there are people who do seek relationships where physical attraction is not real high on their list of priorities...not even initially. Typically it is older, more mature and experienced people who feel this way.

Physical attraction is about lust, not love. Some understand that and actually look for the beauty of a person that lies under the package, through conversation and observation. We all know looks can be deceiving. I would even go as far as saying that many people who perhaps are not what one would call "attractive" by society's definition, become more beautiful (even physically to another) the more one knows the real person under those looks. It's like when one gets drunk, and then all start looking good...One can get drunk on a person's inner beauty, to the point where looks don't matter much at all.

A lot of it depends on where a person is at in their life. It is so true that strictly from a biological perspective, humans seek out mates that will fit their ideal with which to procreate healthy, strong offspring. But being human is more than just physical.

I have done some marriage counseling and I've found that when couples remove sex from the equation, most are completely incompatible with one another. At some point the sex will either end, or greatly diminish and what's left? That is where some long lasting marriages fall apart (like when the kids are grown, and the couple realizes they've stayed together for all the wrong reasons).

When I met my wife (the very first night), we talked all night about what a good relationship is (and how unimportant sex really is in the grand scheme of things). There is a subtle difference between physical intimacy and sex. One can have great sex that is the envy of the porn gods, and still not be intimate in the least. In fact, if people actually took sex completely out of the picture, most relationships would fizzle shortly after starting. I tell young couples to refrain from sex (if they are looking for a long lasting relationship...if not, then all bets are off and they should make like rabbits...LOL).

The ones who wait to have sex (and I don't mean until marriage...but at least until the relationship gets to the point where both feel they love one another), end up having very strong, healthy, long lasting relationships because their relationships are based on things like compatibility, respect, honesty, shared interests, life philosophy, desires, dreams, a strong desire to learn from, and grow with, each other, etc.

It isn't necessary to abstain, but great sex certainly clouds one's judgment. Especially for guys. It is so easy to overlook the fact that you can't stand the way she talks, walks, eats, shops, complains, whines, laughs, criticizes you, etc. when she looks "hot" and is great in bed. When the sex is gone, so is the relationship.

 

[BassChuck]

My mother gave me 3 pieces of advice:

1.) Be yourself and do the things that you are passionate about, and the woman you'll marry will also be your best friend.

2.) Don't let school get in your way of learning something.

3.) Don't put things in your mouth that change your mind.

Good advice. All my life I hoped that #3 had to do with drugs.

 

[disenchant]

I have realized that advice is good, but sometimes one has to look at WHO they're getting advice from.

Lots of people like to say "don't do what I did! It did it and it messed me up!" And it's good advice IF one takes the source into consideration.

I've followed advice of that type and it has NOT turned out well for me. In fact, it has messed things up worse for me.

I now try to only take advice from people who are successful. I like the kind of advice that says "do this, it worked for me." Tony Robbins once said "do what other people do, you get what they get." So true. So true.

Someone who is NOT successful, but says "don't do what I did" doesn't really know what they did wrong, now do they? Because if they did, they would now have success. Plus a lot of advice is based on failures, and the person often attributes the failure to the wrong thing. I followed that type of "don't do that" advice when I got in a financial bind. And the person I got the advice from was ALSO in a financial bind. I followed the advice stupidly and things got WORSE. Duh, because I should have listened to someone who had successfully gotten themselves out, not someone who was still in trouble. Because obviously they didn't know the answers or they wouldn't still be in trouble.

Such as "don't date someone who is 9 years younger than you...because I did and it didn't work." Well, maybe it wasn't because they were 9 years younger because I know people who are happily married and more than 9 years apart.

I like all the positive suggestions and I appreciate that everyone put their two cents in.

 

[Sundogue]

I have realized that advice is good, but sometimes one has to look at WHO they're getting advice from...

...I now try to only take advice from people who are successful. I like the kind of advice that says "do this, it worked for me." Tony Robbins once said "do what other people do, you get what they get." So true. So true.

+ infinity.

 

[MonetBass]

Someone who is NOT successful, but says "don't do what I did" doesn't really know what they did wrong, now do they?

Ahh, very good, grasshopper. (No disrespect intended.) Now you're starting to think. Keep going along that path and it will lead to... well, wherever you seek to be.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

I wasn't really disagreeing completely with you, but rather trying to make a point. I mostly agree with you here...especially that most guys the age Sunni was seeing are still at that limited stage of the game, as it were.

One thing I should mention though, is that there are people who do seek relationships where physical attraction is not real high on their list of priorities...not even initially. Typically it is older, more mature and experienced people who feel this way.

Physical attraction is about lust, not love. Some understand that and actually look for the beauty of a person that lies under the package, through conversation and observation. We all know looks can be deceiving. I would even go as far as saying that many people who perhaps are not what one would call "attractive" by society's definition, become more beautiful (even physically to another) the more one knows the real person under those looks. It's like when one gets drunk, and then all start looking good...One can get drunk on a person's inner beauty, to the point where looks don't matter much at all.

A lot of it depends on where a person is at in their life. It is so true that strictly from a biological perspective, humans seek out mates that will fit their ideal with which to procreate healthy, strong offspring. But being human is more than just physical.

I have done some marriage counseling and I've found that when couples remove sex from the equation, most are completely incompatible with one another. At some point the sex will either end, or greatly diminish and what's left? That is where some long lasting marriages fall apart (like when the kids are grown, and the couple realizes they've stayed together for all the wrong reasons).

When I met my wife (the very first night), we talked all night about what a good relationship is (and how unimportant sex really is in the grand scheme of things). There is a subtle difference between physical intimacy and sex. One can have great sex that is the envy of the porn gods, and still not be intimate in the least. In fact, if people actually took sex completely out of the picture, most relationships would fizzle shortly after starting. I tell young couples to refrain from sex (if they are looking for a long lasting relationship...if not, then all bets are off and they should make like rabbits...LOL).

The ones who wait to have sex (and I don't mean until marriage...but at least until the relationship gets to the point where both feel they love one another), end up having very strong, healthy, long lasting relationships because their relationships are based on things like compatibility, respect, honesty, shared interests, life philosophy, desires, dreams, a strong desire to learn from, and grow with, each other, etc.

It isn't necessary to abstain, but great sex certainly clouds one's judgment. Especially for guys. It is so easy to overlook the fact that you can't stand the way she talks, walks, eats, shops, complains, whines, laughs, criticizes you, etc. when she looks "hot" and is great in bed. When the sex is gone, so is the relationship.

Well as usual. I don't think we're that far apart on our opinions here. I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. Like drinking and smoking. Some people can handle it. Some people can't. Sex is a lot like that. Some couples develop fine with it. Some couples need to develop first before having it. I'd totally agree with that. I've been in both types of successful relationships. The ones that wait (arrrrrrrgggggghhhhh) and then we have great sex. And the ones that are bunnies from the beginning. I've also been in the those that fade after the sex too. But I think you and others have touched upon something big here. Your own head is important. You got to check your head before jumping in. Make sure that you don't settle or compromise yourself in your journey toward the right person. Notice I didn't say "search" for the right person. Because if you're searching, you've got an agenda. Agenda creates pressure and deadlines which in turn creates crazy eyes.

 

[disenchant]

Well as usual. I don't think we're that far apart on our opinions here. I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. Like drinking and smoking. Some people can handle it. Some people can't. Sex is a lot like that. Some couples develop fine with it. Some couples need to develop first before having it. I'd totally agree with that. I've been in both types of successful relationships. The ones that wait (arrrrrrrgggggghhhhh) and then we have great sex. And the ones that are bunnies from the beginning. I've also been in the those that fade after the sex too. But I think you and others have touched upon something big here. Your own head is important. You got to check your head before jumping in. Make sure that you don't settle or compromise yourself in your journey toward the right person. Notice I didn't say "search" for the right person. Because if you're searching, you've got an agenda. Agenda creates pressure and deadlines which in turn creates crazy eyes.

It is very difficult to check your head when you share the same brain with someone!!