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I eventually figured out why guitarists are always so loud

Frenchy-Lefty

Frenchy-Lefty

Sep 8, 2009
1,972
1,863
Lake Tahoe, Ca
#1
I've been playing bass since the mid-eighties and I have always played a bit of acoustic guitar on the side. Lately, I've gotten more into electric guitar and was on the market for an all tube amp. Let's be honest, I played bass with countless guitarists and never heard a decent guitar tone coming from a solid state amp aside perhaps from a Roland JC120. So tube amp it had to be.

Well, after trying a few all tube combos, I realized why so many players are so gee-whilickers loud: even with a 30W all tube amp like a Blues Junior, or with a 15W amp VOX AC15 you already get a lot of volume and you just can't use them at low volume either or they sound awful. Needless to mention something like a 100W Twin Reverb! Anyhow, I got a 10W VOX AC10 and it is already loud enough for rehearsals and would easily keep up with a moderately loud drummer and a 300W SS bass amp.

All those years I thought they were loud because they were selfish and show off jerks. Perhaps I was wrong (...or not)
 
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#2
True points. However, most guitarists are too loud because they don't point their rigs at their ears. It's almost always pointed at their knees. The second reason they are too loud is that don't care how the band sounds as a whole and only care about their tones.

A cranked tube amp sounds magical! I will never be against that tone, but when their rig makes it difficult for the band to function and live shows a nightmare, what's the point?

Glad you see the light with volume.
 
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#3
Quite often guitarists are “too loud” because they rock. I find in some cases that is the same reason some drummers are loud. All other things equal, louder is better than conversational volume.

While it’s absolutely true that you could crank an 800W, 2-12 bass rig and a guitarist could match the apparent volume with a 30-50W combo, that would be somewhat more lame than a Plexi on a 4-12.
Look up some examples of awesome rock stuff and you’ll see what I mean. No self respecting guitarist would bust out a 1-10 combo when a stack or half stack would do. That’s why so many bass players joke about being asked to introduce fans to the guitarist. Loud rocks.
 
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#4
I know some people like the way the JC120 sounds, but IMHO :vomit:.

I own several classic, vintage all-tube guitar amps. IMHO most of them can be dialed in to sound pretty decent at a reasonable volume, especially if you have a decent compressor pedal. BUT! A 100W Marshall played at bedroom level does not sound like a 100W Marshall that is cranked to the max.

You could reasonably argue that a guitarist should use a lower powered amp that can be dialed in to sound and feel great at a reasonable volume. However, part of the reason why people like really loud sound is because it stimulates their endocrine system and puts them into a state of excitement. It's actually sort of an addiction, where you crank up to get a hit.

Other factors.
-A lot of guitarists have damaged their ears, which means the have to turn up even more to hear the desired tone and hit.
-As @Gearhead17 mentioned, many guitar players can't stand the sound that comes out the front of their rig. This is partly because of the way they adjust the amp IMHO, but also it relates to the type of experience they want. In essence they are looking for more of a diffuse sound that seems to completely surround them. So rather than hearing the direct sound, they want to crank the amp so loud that they can key of the indirect sound bouncing around the room....(IMHO this is the biggest part of the problem).

So, the primary problem is the guitarist pumping the room full of reverberant energy, and result is the SPL is pretty much the same at all points within a significant distance of the guitar amp. In other the SPL of the guitar is pretty much the same for all band members.

In my experience most people want to hear themself about 6-10dB louder than any other sound source. The SPL of a point source drops by 6dB for each doubling of distance. So if you are 4' from your bass rig, the guitarist needs to be 8' for your sound to drop off by 6dB from the SPL you hear. The problem is the guitar signal does not drop off by 6dB for each doubling of distance if the guitarist is pumping the room full of reverberant energy rather keying off the the direct sound coming out the front of his/her amp.

Even worse, some guitarists will try to aim their cranked amp across the stage, so you may be hit with a very bright and harsh tone that is significantly louder than the reflected sound the guitarist is keying off.

My take is if you are getting paid, you should be concerned about what the audience wants. If the audience wants massive volume then feel free to rock out. But in my experience many bands would get more work if they learned how to deliver a good show at a much lower volume. It's a different set of priorities and also a different type of experience. Those who insist the sound always has to be extremely loud are usually focusing on what they want, rather than what the audience wants. Not a very professional attitude if you ask me.
 
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#5
Wasnex said:
Even worse, some guitarists will try to aim their cranked amp across the stage, so you may be hit with a very bright and harsh tone that is significantly louder than the reflected sound the guitarist is keying off.
Click to expand...

Yet, this is preferable to aiming the cab at the audience, and lopping off the heads of everyone caught in the speaker's beam. Even better would be aiming the cab away from the audience (assuming closed back), or placing it backstage.

But guitarists, like bass players, come in many varieties these days. For every caveman with a 100W amp and a half stack blasting at his knees, you have a guy with a 20-30W head and a vertical 2x12" lifted off the floor, or a Helix/AxeFX/Kemper into a small FRFR speaker.
 
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#6
Frenchy-Lefty said:
I've been playing bass since the mid-eighties and I have always played a bit of acoustic guitar on the side. Lately, I've gotten more into electric guitar and was on the market for an all tube amp. Let's be honest, I played bass with countless guitarists and never heard a decent guitar tone coming from a solid state amp aside perhaps from a Roland JC120. So tube amp it had to be.

Well, after trying a few all tube combos, I realized why so many players are so gee-whilickers loud: even with a 30W all tube amp like a Blues Junior, or with a 15W amp VOX AC15 you already get a lot of volume and you just can't use them at low volume either or they sound awful. Needless to mention something like a 100W Twin Reverb! Anyhow, I got a 10W VOX AC10 and it is already loud enough for rehearsals and would easily keep up with a moderately loud drummer and a 300W SS bass amp.

All those years I thought they were loud because they were selfish and show off jerks. Perhaps I was wrong (...or not)
Click to expand...
Try a 5W Fender '57 Custom Champ. It's not too loud cranked. And picture perfect for recording.
 
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#10
I've played in a band that was way beyond stupid loud.
I used an Aguilar stack with two 212 cabinets and a 500W Tonehammer which had next to no headroom left.
Once, I forgot to bring the amp head and used the Peavey Mark IV I stored in that place. Or tried to. No chance.
I forgot the wattage of the Mark IV at 4 ohms, but it simply was not enough.

One of the guitarists had a Mesa Transatlantic head with, I think 25 Watts and the other one had an Egnater head with 30W. One was playing a Marshall 412, the other a (better) Marshall 212.

Feels like guitar players are cheating at volume.
 
#13
Composers and musicians build and release tension with melody, harmony, rhythm and dynamics.

Guitarists play loud.

A lot of the emotion in rock comes more from volume than musicality. If you like that kind of thing, have fun. I loved it when I was a kid. Not so much anymore.

If you have to play loud to get "tone" maybe what you're playing isn't that interesting, musically, on it's own.
 
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#14
Let's don't forget the general frequency range of a guitar is in the most sensitive range of human hearing, that is humans are more attuned and pay more attention to higher frequencies than we do lower frequencies. It's easier for us to hear higher frequencies and therefore would consider a higher frequency louder than a lower frequency at same volume. It's from when humans had to pay attention to certain noises to stay alive or to eat. Guitar amps don't need to be as powerful as bass amps. Physics, baby!
 
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#15
This doesn't just apply to guitar. It's also very relevant for bass if you use tube amps.

I rarely use more than 100w tube amps on stage unless it's a HUGE stage or outdoors. I prefer around 30-50w tube amps for recording bass in my studio. This will enable me to use the amp at the volume they will deliver the best tone without getting too loud. Far too many bass players use tube amps that are WAY more powerful than they need and their tone suffers from it. An SVT rig set at "2" on a small stage is NOT a great tone IMO.
 
#18
You've seen it here a few times. A common misconception: A 300w tube amp is louder than a 300w SS amp.

Take that idea into the guitar world and that 30w VOX sounds great cranked because it has to be cranked to get that sound. A 30w ss amp breaks up at a much lower volume but sounds mushy when cranked to the same volume as a comparable wattage in a tube amp.

Lets be honest, Peavey Transtube circuitry (Bandit) sounds decent to my ears and can get quite loud before things get out of hand.

Orange SS amps sound decent as well.

 
#19
Yeah, guitars are stupid loud because it takes next to nothing to amplify them. I play in a band with guitar players using 22w and 40w 112 combos, and they can get crazy loud if thy don’t keep a lid on it. My rehearsal space has a 5w 112 combo that we use, and it keeps up with our loud rock drummer just fine.

Big amps like Twins and AC30s and JCM800s exist because there was a time when they had to carry the house in big rooms. Most of us don’t play in those situations anymore, but those amps still need to be turned up to get “The Tone,” so naturally they sound loud and out of place.
 
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#20
Frenchy-Lefty said:
I've been playing bass since the mid-eighties and I have always played a bit of acoustic guitar on the side. Lately, I've gotten more into electric guitar and was on the market for an all tube amp. Let's be honest, I played bass with countless guitarists and never heard a decent guitar tone coming from a solid state amp aside perhaps from a Roland JC120. So tube amp it had to be.

Well, after trying a few all tube combos, I realized why so many players are so gee-whilickers loud: even with a 30W all tube amp like a Blues Junior, or with a 15W amp VOX AC15 you already get a lot of volume and you just can't use them at low volume either or they sound awful. Needless to mention something like a 100W Twin Reverb! Anyhow, I got a 10W VOX AC10 and it is already loud enough for rehearsals and would easily keep up with a moderately loud drummer and a 300W SS bass amp.

All those years I thought they were loud because they were selfish and show off jerks. Perhaps I was wrong (...or not)
Click to expand...

Great observation. One more... open back cabinets.....
 

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