I eventually figured out why guitarists are always so loud

[Ric5]

Master Volume VS Attenuator - How to get MARSHALL Tube tone at home! - YouTube

 

[Dirk Diggler]

+1 on the attenuator.

 

[pfschim]

In my experience with loud guitar players is that they don’t understand the difference between input gain and master volume. Once they crack that code you can have a more productive discussion about volume.

unfortunately, many of the legendary/popular tube guitar amps (Twin, Deluxe, Showman, Bassman AC30, Plexi, Marshal JMP etc ... ) do not have a master volume, so guitarists claim that they can only use them dialed to 11 to get their tone .... which just s**cks if your value your ears or care about keeping an audience.

I'd agree that there is definitely a place for dimed tube guitar amps when your rocking out and your in the right venue, but IMO/IME it's waaay fewer than guitarists seem to want to believe.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I've been playing bass since the mid-eighties and I have always played a bit of acoustic guitar on the side. Lately, I've gotten more into electric guitar and was on the market for an all tube amp. Let's be honest, I played bass with countless guitarists and never heard a decent guitar tone coming from a solid state amp aside perhaps from a Roland JC120. So tube amp it had to be.

Well, after trying a few all tube combos, I realized why so many players are so gee-whilickers loud: even with a 30W all tube amp like a Blues Junior, or with a 15W amp VOX AC15 you already get a lot of volume and you just can't use them at low volume either or they sound awful. Needless to mention something like a 100W Twin Reverb! Anyhow, I got a 10W VOX AC10 and it is already loud enough for rehearsals and would easily keep up with a moderately loud drummer and a 300W SS bass amp.

All those years I thought they were loud because they were selfish and show off jerks. Perhaps I was wrong (...or not)

For bass players, the goal is tons of headroom (like a V8 engine that chews up the countryside) and guitarists want to "redline" their amps to get that savory oh-so-sweet slow burn that only glowing tubes can deliver.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

I don't buy this. I played with great guitar players who use tube amps and have appropriate volumes.

 

[Frenchy-Lefty]

In my experience with loud guitar players is that they don’t understand the difference between input gain and master volume. Once they crack that code you can have a more productive discussion about volume.

Well, I used to think that but all the goodness of a tube amp comes from driving of the power section and not the preamp, unfortunately.

 

[Wasnex]

Well, I used to think that but all the goodness of a tube amp comes from driving of the power section and not the preamp, unfortunately.

Your opinion is shared by many. IMHO, it depends on the amp and what you want.

 

[rojo412]

I've been toying with various guitar amps lately, in an unholy search for the perfect one for me (spoiler alert: I don't think there is one, as I'm a bassist to the bone, unfortunately). Attenuators are definitely a great move for the tube amp community. For the one tube amp I have now (Yamaha T50C), I built one into the cabinet:

You can get cranked tonality in a much quieter volume.

That said, the tone wasn't perfect for my low volume needs, so I snagged a Tech 21 Trademark 60 combo which does the tube-like sound very well, but can be as quiet as you want. I really like that amp a lot.

And as it were, I just restored my dad's Roland JC77 today:

Yes, these are not great for much beyond clean sound, but WOW, is that clean sound amazing!

 

[vvvmmm]

Some observations re 45 years playing guitar amps;
JC120s are pretty good pedal platforms, ex., see Billy Duffy;
a Hot Rod Deluxe (loud 40w.) seems to be the current pedal platform of choice, and Pro,Jr. is also good at 15w.; and,
a mic'd stage amp can be quickly attenuated with a leather jacket over the front (leave the back open for heat);
four amps I have that do at least two uniquely different and good sounds are 1. Silver Jubilee 1x12" (50/25w., beautiful Fenderish clean, two good Marshal distorted sounds); 2. Ampeg VT60 (60/25w., Marshall, Boogie and Fender channels by design); 3. Vox Night Train 50 (50/25w., Vox "class A" clean, Vox dirty and Marshall by design); 4. Fender Bassbreaker (mine is the 007, 7w., beautiful Fender clean, Fender dirty and Marshall).

And yeah, the Tech21 amps are my fave solid-states; I have the Trademark 10 and the 60; I bought the former to record (great for it) and the latter to leave at a practice space just as the band broke up ... the amp is too cool to sell.

 

[Chickenwheels]

I swapped with our guitarist for a song once. It was a very strange experience sonically.

 

[80jazz]

Let's don't forget the general frequency range of a guitar is in the most sensitive range of human hearing, that is humans are more attuned and pay more attention to higher frequencies than we do lower frequencies. It's easier for us to hear higher frequencies and therefore would consider a higher frequency louder than a lower frequency at same volume. It's from when humans had to pay attention to certain noises to stay alive or to eat. Guitar amps don't need to be as powerful as bass amps. Physics, baby!

I wonder if this is also why bass sound setup gets so little time in the studio.

 

[DWBass]

Big difference between amateurs and pros. Most amateur guitarists have no idea how to balance their sound to match the band. Go see pros play. Huge difference. Not just guitarists. Amateur drummers as well have a volume issue.

 

[Marko 1]

I realize it's wrong to generalize and hate on guitarists...

but I would like to think there's a special place in hell for whoever decided to make electric guitar a lead instrument.

 

[marchone]

I don’t know, guys. First it’s drummers, now guitarists. After the keyboard players I know what to expect.

 

[Hypercaffium]

I played guitar for more than 20 years and I can tell you that you can definitely get a great sound from a solid state amp.
Tube amps don't necessarely sound bad at low volume, especially when set clean. If they do, there are tools that allow you to push the tubes while keeping the volume down.
People like to play loud, don't overthink it.

 

[5StringBlues]

I'll be the first to admit that a JC120 for ANYTHING except that lush, clean chorus, is just about useless, I don't care if you put a Tube Screamer or anything else inline on the way in, it just ain't gonna fly like that. Of course, a big part of that is that unlike most SS guitar amps where they've left in 5-10% distortion to fool you into thinking it's 'warmth', the JC's two power amps are PA spec, ultra clean. So it's like running a guitar and a Tube Screamer into a channel on a mixer, just ain't happening.

But for that one thing though, I love them to the point I'd love to find one someday just to have as a bass practice amp for the house. And to be in continuous production since its intro in the 70's tells me a lot, especially when Roland has wholesale turnovers of their catalog frequently.

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was . . . . .

Boy did I find out the hard way about the JC120.........





Played a blues festival with my old boss. Usually he took his old Peavey Classic Chorus 212 Link Removed


on the road with us, but for some reason the promoters talked him into letting them supply an amp for him. The Peavey was old and a bit beat up, but it had a nice round, full tone with a Les Paul plugged into the clean channel. I think the age of the speakers contributed to a tiny bit of breakup, producing a good B.B. King-ish blues tone.






My boss, pushing 80 and feeling out of touch with newer amps, comes to me asking my opinion on the amps being offered to him. Most are your usual Super Reverbs, Twins, and Deluxes, but also a Roland JC120.



So genius me looks at this and reasons solid state 212 chorus amp = solid state 212 chorus amp.



Nope. The JC's tone was not as round as the Peavey, especially on the attack of the note, no matter how the tone controls were set. We couldn't get a tone anywhere close to his usual.




As we got into the van to go back to the hotel, my boss turns to me, smiles, and says, "Don't ever let me use an amp like that again."

 

[Mark 63]

When guitar players insist on being way louder than everyone else, it's because they think they are the star of the band and the rest of the players are supporting cast.

 

[calypsocoral302]

In my experience with loud guitar players is that they don’t understand the difference between input gain and master volume. Once they crack that code you can have a more productive discussion about volume.

True in some cases, but it is worth noting that there is a definite difference between preamp distortion and power amp distortion. The latter adds some compression where the former can get very "fizzy"

 

[byacey]

if your experience has truly been that all guitarist play too loudly, you're playing with the wrong guitarists. many of them--across all genres--understand balance and set their volume levels appropriately for the situation.

An interesting observation is that generally, if what you are hearing sounds good and is well played, levels that are somewhat too loud can easily be overlooked, but if what you are hearing is an assault on your ears and the musicianship is poor, anything is too loud.

Some guitarists I've heard EQ their instrument so it's all twang and low end boom; this cranked up will never develop into any sort of good sound. Maybe they never heard about mids?

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

You've seen it here a few times. A common misconception: A 300w tube amp is louder than a 300w SS amp.

Take that idea into the guitar world and that 30w VOX sounds great cranked because it has to be cranked to get that sound. A 30w ss amp breaks up at a much lower volume but sounds mushy when cranked to the same volume as a comparable wattage in a tube amp.

Lets be honest, Peavey Transtube circuitry (Bandit) sounds decent to my ears and can get quite loud before things get out of hand.

Orange SS amps sound decent as well.

That orange super crush 100 and the old Marshall Mosfet lead 100 are two of my favorite solidstate guitar amps I've ever heard for overdriven tones atleast.